Mary O'Rourke (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)

I have listened to various speakers during the day. They have been universally apologetic and concerned that this situation occurred within a wider community in which people either did not shout "Stop" or were not heeded when they did. I am sure people tried to shout "Stop", but their voices were not heard.

A new Deputy discussed her role as a teacher and how, through her teaching, she has always known of how young people can be brought forward and helped through acclaim or words of encouragement. She spoke the truth. During my years of teaching, I would often encounter young pupils who, for one reason or another, had not had many chances in life. They arrived at secondary school and found coping or fitting in difficult. If particular care was provided to the young girls with which I dealt, however, or if a particular warmth was displayed, they would blossom as people. It was always a source of great delight to see young pupils advance in that way, pupils who could find strength in knowledge and eventually be glad they played games and made friends among their school fellows. It was encouraging for a teacher. Bright students will always advance because they not only have themselves to rely on, but they have warm and encouraging backgrounds. Other students, however, could find advancing extremely difficult.

Contrast this with young children. I was horrified to read about a child of nine months of age. Another child aged 18 months was sentenced. How could one sentence a child of that age? The child was taken from its mother. Perhaps she was a widow, could not afford to keep her children or so on. The child was sentenced to something that I do not know what to call. The child was brought up without a modicum of love or encouragement.

Only a few Deputies have not reared children. When one has reared children in a favourable background, one knows they respond and advance in their motor movements, intelligence and every character aspect because they have been given love. The institutions' children were sent into a large abyss without love, warmth, encouragement or self-pride. Day after day and night after night, there was no end to the misery. Often, the night brought further misery, as we know from the reports on sexual abuse. Children were huddled under blankets. I do not know how anyone survived. Like many Deputies, I spent 40 or 45 minutes listening to survivors outside Leinster House. I do not know how those men and women even had the courage to name their institutions, recount what was done to them or get through it all. Mr. Justice Ryan did a good job. There is no doubt about that, given that we are debating his report.

I taught for many years before entering public life. I will give credit to the INTO, which wanted to introduce a programme called Stay Safe when I was at the Department of Education. The INTO visited me at the Department. The scheme was a good one whereby young children in primary school would be alerted to things that could threaten them or be wrong for them. The Department responded and Stay Safe was introduced on a pilot basis before being rolled out to many schools. However, the programme is still not in every secondary school. After returning to the House, I tabled a question on this matter, but I was told the roll-out figure was 75%. Why is it not in every school? It should be, since it is a properly established and monitored scheme whereby young people are alerted in a non-threatening way to the dangers they may confront and for which they should watch out. I have discussed the matter briefly with the Minister for Education and Science, Deputy Batt O'Keeffe. The Department should go about its work and ensure the programme is introduced into every school.

I will tell an aside, which tells its own tale in another way. After our agreement in May to introduce the Stay Safe programme and its initial implementation the following September, I met people at a clinic in my home office for a few hours one Saturday. I hate the word "clinic", but that is what everyone calls it. Six buses drew up outside, from each of which a large contingent exited. They rang the doorbell and my late husband Enda - whom I dearly miss for many reasons, this included - met them, brought them in and so on. They told me they had come from County Cork to protest at my house about the Stay Safe programme. I have never forgotten that incident. Those people were parents. In my head, I could never come around to understanding why they did not want the programme. I see Deputy Stanton nodding. They painted me as a Jezebel of some kind or another, a red witch prepared to destroy children by introducing the programme.

In our discussions, we pay tribute to those who have gone through their own valleys of hell, but the issue is not over for young children. In 50 years' time, will Members of the House, in whatever shape it may be, discuss the lack of support for children in care or some other aspect of children's lives? Will they still be asking where is the referendum on the rights of the child.

This idea brings me around to a second phase of my life, one that has a bearing on our debate. Before I do so, however, I wish to discuss the Ryan report's chapters, which were particularly horrifying and distasteful. Women were incarcerated as forced labour in the Magdalene laundries. What was their sin? They became pregnant and had a child. That was their sin.

Can one imagine the situation? Women who perhaps had very deprived childhoods and found a measure of love in some shape became pregnant. Such women were taken into so-called Magdalene laundries and were made to work over steamy iron presses. Anybody who has collected clothes from a dry cleaners knows the smell of the chemicals used in them. Many women were incarcerated in such places and made to work in hot, fetid atmospheres because they had a child and were deemed, from then on, to be "dirty" women. Imagine the mentality which saw that as a heinous act and incarcerated women. This sort of thinking about sexual matters and women is prevalent enough in these times, even in echoes of past times.

I have the honour of chairing a committee on the constitutional amendment on children's rights. I am convinced that until the amendment is written in English and sent out to the people to vote on, we will not ensure children have their rights. In all countries of the world, there is always an opportunity for the powerful to subjugate the weak. There are revolutions in various countries and there are countries in which democracy does not flourish. Why is this the case? It is the case because a powerful elite has sought to subjugate a weaker group of people.

That is what happened in the lives of all the young children affected by this issue, that is, powerful people sought to subjugate them, by hardship, providing scant food, showing them absolutely no love and subjecting them to sexual and physical abuse. It happened because some people enjoyed the aphrodisiac of power and the ability to wreak power on a person who is weaker, in this case a vulnerable child who was much smaller than they. What mind took delight in that? It is very difficult for us to understand, but we have to.

We have a wonderful committee which is examining all of these matters. I foresee that, throughout the land, all of these horrors and many others, such as the Roscommon incest case which unfolded some months ago - I understand there is more to follow on that - and many others, some published and some not, will be revealed. One thinks of the children of the young family in Leitrim and what they had to do regarding incest by their own father.

Until we get the wording of the constitutional amendment correct and put it to the people, we will not address this issue. There will be many people, worthy by their own lights, who will seek to ensure that does not gain credence throughout the land. I started my political life in dealing with children through the Department of Education and Science and schools. Now, in the ebb tide of my life, when I was so lucky to get back into the House - it was fortunate and took hard work and I thank the electorate - I will again be dealing with young children, and the most vulnerable of children.

Until we are able to say children have rights as individuals, and not just those already allowed for within a family or the right to education, which is proper, but the right to be respected for her or his own character, imagination and creativity, we will not address this issue. All of this must be acknowledged. The rights of children should be put into English which can be understood and this should be put to the people of Ireland.

I want to hear no comments from people who think children are now well looked after. In the main that is the case, and many have loving family backgrounds. We all know that. However, there are still opportunities for the powerful to prey on the vulnerable and that is what we must guard against. I hope out of all the words we will all say today and tomorrow in this House will come a sense of purpose that never again will we read a report such as the one we are discussing. That is my wish and aspiration.

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