Bernard Durkan (Kildare North, Fine Gael)

I welcome the principle involved in this Bill, which I have looked at on a number of occasions. There are many technicalities involved with it, which obviously will be beneficial in the administration of justice. I think of the Firearms Acts 1925 to 2007, the European Arrest Warrant Act 2003, the Bail Act 1997, the Criminal Justice (Theft and Fraud Offences) Act 2001, the Criminal Justices Act 1984 and the Summary Jurisdiction Act 1857. It is laudable to see improvements being made and the streamlining and co-ordination of legislation in a seamless manner that hopefully will be of benefit to the administration of justice in confronting crime.

Apropos the points raised by Deputy Flynn, I agree in general. We must be very careful to clarify that there is a vast difference between people who are engaged in sporting activity and those who have other motives for seeking firearms. I am not aware of any body or group involved in sporting activities which would lend themselves in any way to illegal activity - I do not know to what extent limitation will be of benefit, in that sense. I am concerned, however, about law-abiding citizens seeking handguns in order to protect themselves, such is the state of the society in which we live. It is sad, but that is the way it is.

The Minister knows better than anybody that we are going through a difficult time in Irish society and there is total disrespect for any type of law and order by a certain fraternity. Members of this fraternity use every opportunity to advance their cause. They use intimidation and firearms, flout the bail laws and do everything possible to ensure that they live the high life at the expense of society. Society is under threat from these people, namely, organised crime gangs.

I still do not know to what extent the Bill will enhance the State's ability to combat this situation. We have a plethora of proposed legislation in the justice area, either promised or threatened, for the past five or six years and the time has come for serious legislation that will significantly undermine the activities of the type of people I am talking about. We have only been playing with this heretofore. The whole question of people committing multiple serious crime while on bail will not be affected to any extent by this legislation unless the bail laws are changed.

I was a Member of this House when the Criminal Justice Act 1984 was passed. The House had to sit through the night twice and I was among those concerned about the civil liberties of people and the possibility that perhaps the law might be used in a wrong way. I believe we have passed that point by a long shot at this particular time. The murder of journalist Veronica Guerin a few years ago was a watershed that galvanised society and everybody paid attention. It was sad that it had to come to that before the country realised that a difficult situation was arising which could not continue. I mentioned this morning the repeated findings of pipe bombs all over this city and particularly in the greater Dublin area. There is a reason for that - these things are not just done as recreational pursuits. The purpose is intimidation and it is very effective. It appears that it is being done with impunity. Every time we hear of an incident such as this, it is just one more. The situation now unfolding is very serious.

I would like to believe the Minister is fully alerted to what is happening. I am aware the Garda has done some tremendous work in recent times, but for some unknown reason the criminal fraternity in this country, and those with connections or domiciled outside Ireland and who run criminal empires from outside this jurisdiction, as well as those who run them from inside prisons here, have utter contempt for our society and any type of justice or regard for the law. There are those who try to reassure people by insisting that the level of crime in Ireland is relatively low. The fact is that the crime levels in Ireland which have developed in recent years are very serious and the trend continues to grow.

For example, we know quite well that there is fairly widespread intimidation of witnesses. I know there is proposed legislation on that matter, although I do not know when it will come or whether it will be effective. There is reference to it in this legislation, but I am not certain that it will get to the nub of the matter.

I attended a meeting in Brussels some time ago which was addressed by Europol and Eurojust. I know there are attempts to address these issues through the Schengen Agreement, but it was clearly illustrated to Members of Parliaments from all the European member states that criminal gangs were running rampant and had a great communications system. They had great camaraderie and recognised each other's authority in their respective areas. Effectively, they are taking on individual European states and they seem to be getting away it by undermining democracy. They are using the openness and fairness of democracy to undermine and defeat the people and institutions of state and effectively paralyse them. Much has been said in recent years about zero tolerance and the fact that minor culprits should be summarily dealt with, charged and so on. However, that is not where the problem lies.

Great credit is given to a certain mayor of New York who claimed that he had achieved zero tolerance when, in actual fact, it was his predecessor who achieved it. The latter struck at those at the highest levels of the criminal fraternity in New York. He made it difficult for them to operate, put them out of business and seized their assets. The Criminal Assets Bureau, CAB, is doing good work but members of the Irish criminal fraternity are well resourced and can afford to seek the best legal advice. In some cases, these individuals have been extremely successful.

My point is that those at the top must be dealt with. Those who are most inspired by those who pursue criminal activities on a wide scale are the young people who will become tomorrow's criminals. That is sad. The individuals to whom I refer see those in the criminal fraternity living the high life and being successful. They also seem them intimidating people into leaving their homes in what, in some cases, almost amounts to ethnic cleansing. This is an extremely serious matter.

Headlines relating to the criminal fraternity have been appearing in our newspapers for some time. However, the examples they have set are beginning to have an effect and petty criminals and hooligans are beginning to follow in their footsteps. The latter do so on the basis that they can get away with it. If large corporations are able to get away with questionable behaviour, these people believe there is no reason that they should not emulate those whom they perceive to be their betters.

I have long been of the view that there is a need for a single item of consolidating legislation which will tackle the criminal kingpins head on. I refer here to those who are serious operators and who live in our cities, major towns and even some of our smaller towns. If the Garda Síochána makes it too hot for these individuals to operate in certain areas, they move to the suburbs. Once there, they settle down and, in some cases, achieve a certain amount of respectability. However, most of what they do is achieved through fear and intimidation.

Another matter which is of great solace to those in the criminal fraternity is their ability to raise funds. In order to raise funds, these people can rob institutions and then launder or invest money. I accept that legislation is in place to help the authorities tackle behaviour of this nature but they cannot combat it in its entirety. The CAB has been particularly incisive and has done tremendous work. I pay tribute to it in this regard. However, a great deal more must be done and there is a need to wage a war of attrition against the criminal groupings to which I refer.

There is not a town or village throughout the country which has not been affected by the anti-social behaviour of gurriers who are intent on intimidating their neighbours. These individuals make life difficult for young people, their contemporaries and older people and intimidate them by just hanging around. They throw stones or marbles at people's windows, fire air guns, etc., in order to intimidate their neighbours. In many instances, people who have lived in particular places all their lives - I am sure other Members have evidence of this - are moving out. I was contacted by a person in my constituency this afternoon who asked whether it would be possible for her to move to a different location because she can no longer remain where she resides at present. That is a sad reflection on society.

There is no point in stating that what is happening is part of societal development and that it was part of the Celtic tiger years. Like hell it was. There is no need for the kind of nonsense to which I refer. If people do not respect the rights and property of others and if they do not acknowledge some form of authority, then we will get nowhere.

Until such time as the members of the criminal fraternity who are roaming the land and carrying out various heinous acts on a regular basis are confronted in a meaningful way, progress will not be made. I have no hesitation in stating that the bail laws must be amended. In circumstances where there is substantial evidence to the effect that a person has used a gun, knife or some other weapon to commit murder, I cannot understand how he or she is entitled to be out on bail until his or her trial takes place. I accept that the law dates back to the 1960s but we live in a different era.

I am aware that the civil liberties of all those who are accused of committing crimes must be observed. However, we have reached a point where the civil liberties of criminals are more sacrosanct than those of ordinary citizens. That is a sad development and I do not know how it came about. We used to have great respect for the rights and property of other people. In recent times, however, the ordinary person's right to exist appears to have been pushed aside so that the civil liberties of those who are involved in committing serious crimes on a regular basis might be protected.

What justification can there be for granting bail to a person who is charged with murder or with shooting somebody who, when released, shoots or attempts to shoot someone else? Has everyone gone daft? Such a situation cannot be allowed to continue. As the Minister is aware, events such as those to which I refer have taken place. I do not blame him, but someone must take action.

A number of crime correspondents have been writing about what has been happening in this country for the past seven or eight years or perhaps longer. These people can cite chapter and verse with regard to how the situation is becoming worse. They are in a position to do so because they are continually monitoring events. While there have been a number of spectacular successes as far as the Garda is concerned, there have also been a number of extremely serious and worrying developments. Not only has it been proven that we some serious criminals are walking our streets, but also that with access to a bit of expertise, they can get away with what they are doing. That is the sad part because I am of the view that it signals the fact that we are close to a total breakdown with regard to both the administration of justice and the protection of citizens.

In all the time I have spent as a Member of this House, I have never seen a more serious attempt being made by those who make a great deal of money from criminal activity to undermine and challenge society. That is not a good development. It is time for society or its elected representatives to look these people in the eye and answer that challenge. If this is not done soon, it will be too late. As far as I can determine, if legislation, when enacted, does not seem to have a definite impact on the people to whom I refer, they develop a new sense of enthusiasm which encourages them to commit further crimes.

There is a need to review the position of the courts. There are many technical references to the courts and the European arrest warrant in this legislation. I am not in the business of criticising the Judiciary but there have been some extraordinary situations. Maybe for lack of evidence or intimidation of witnesses or jurors, both of which have occurred, it appears that some regard serious crime as a nominal offence. Some think that with a bit of luck one can get away with it if one studies law in prison and develops expertise. It is about time we recognise what is going on. I suggest there is an area that must be addressed and I do not suggest the legal practitioners are to blame. The Minister is a legal practitioner and this is not a personal accusation. However, something serious is happening that must be examined.

I am coming to the end of my contribution - all good things come to an end. However, I cannot understand how people get away with this minor matter. I refer to when a heinous act takes place, usually a sexual attack, and the perpetrator cannot be named for legal reasons. The victim may have been seriously traumatised, yet the perpetrator cannot be named for legal reasons, presumably because it has not yet been proven that he or she was responsible. When leaving the court, some of the hard men decide to give television cameras and photographers the two fingered salute. This is the ultimate in what they think of society, Parliament, the Garda Síochána and the people of this country who feel under the cosh all the time from thugs of every description, who appear to be able to display themselves in this fashion with impunity. Then, there is something wrong.

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