Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)

The overall situation regarding the need to control numbers is that 36% of our total budget relates to pay. This issue must be controlled and watched very carefully given the fact that the Government has to borrow €20 billion this year, in addition to the revenues it takes in to try to maintain services. Fine Gael's critique has been that we are not cutting enough. Its spokesperson on finance has said we have ducked decisions and need more cuts in expenditure, yet every expenditure control is criticised by Fine Gael as unnecessary. That is a matter for it to figure out.

We need to recognise that the moratorium has its effects. Given the limited resources available to this or any other Government, we need to have greater flexibilities in the workplace, redeployment of staff and the ability to move staff around to various parts of the service in order that we can provide staff where the need is greatest. That needs to happen and it requires continuing discussion and agreement with staff interests. That will be necessary if we are to maintain services. If there is no change in flexibility and putting in place redeployment policies, service levels will be affected. The people for whom we provide the service will be the first to be affected if we do not get flexibility from those providing the service. Whether in the health service or any other service, we must continue to work to get a greater degree of output for the available resources. The level of resources available this year is €20 billion in excess of what the State is able to provide for itself within its current capacity. Everybody, including all social partners, agree this must be addressed in the next number of years to bring it back to a situation whereby the public finances are sustainable. If that is to happen - and it must - only by getting greater flexibilities in how we deploy our staff can we seek to maintain to the greatest possible extent the level of service in the priority areas where we want it. In the absence of such flexibility and redeployment the only alternative whereby we can meet some of the issues raised by the Deputy is to increase levels of staff. However, the position of the Deputy's party is that we have not cut back sufficiently on expenditure levels in order to deal with the wider problem in the public finances. Which way does the Deputy wish to go? We cannot go four ways at the same time and end up in a coherent position.

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