Willie O'Dea (Limerick East, Fianna Fail)

I am glad to be able to address the House on this issue. I had the opportunity to listen to my constituency colleagues, Deputies Noonan and Kieran O'Donnell, and I have taken very careful note of what they said. Deputy Noonan made a point about the Garda Reserve and the Reserve Defence Forces and the apparent mismatch between sections 4 and 13. The Minister can deal with that matter in his winding-up speech and I will bring it to his attention. There is no question of private contractors carrying out surveillance. The reference in the section is to people such as Eircom technicians, computer experts, etc. I hear what Deputy Noonan says about section 7 and I accept his logic, but unfortunately it is based on a misinterpretation of section 7(2). Again, I will bring it to the Minister's attention. Deputy Noonan raised the question of what is meant by "privilege" in section 5(4). In my opinion there is only one type of privilege known to the law, and that is the relationship between solicitor and client. Communications there are privileged and no other privilege is known to the law.

Deputy Kieran O'Donnell made the point about evidence already collected being admissible. That is a fair point and I will bring it to the Minister's attention. The Deputy also made the point that the legislation should not stand alone but other measures are needed. I fully accept that and so does the Minister. The Minister has already discussed with his colleagues and the Cabinet various other measures he intends to bring forward. Listening to the tenor of Deputy Kieran O'Donnell's remarks, I do not think he will be too disappointed when those other measures are published.

Last November this House came together to express its anger and outrage at the brutal and callous murder of Shane Geoghegan, whose family are friends of mine. The message we sent out then was that Shane's murder, and the other crimes and violence we have seen in Limerick and elsewhere, would be met with the full force of the law, within the law. That we have done and will continue to do. We also stated clearly and forcibly that this Government would provide the Garda Síochána with whatever powers it deems fit to defeat the gangland leaders in Limerick and elsewhere. The Taoiseach and the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform assured the Garda Commissioner that any additional assistance needed, whether legislative or by way of resources, to deal with the Limerick criminal gangs would be forthcoming.

This is precisely what we are doing today with this important legislation and, as I have indicated to Deputy Kieran O'Donnell, it will not stand alone. When passed, this Bill will enable the Garda to build on the successes it has had in its fight against gangland crime in Limerick to date. This legislation is particularly important to me as Minister for Defence because I have a role in the matter, which I will address presently. It is vitally important to me as a representative of the people of Limerick.

The vicious slayings of Shane Geoghegan and Roy Collins, and the earlier slaying of Brian Fitzgerald, all of whose families are friends of mine, with the Collins family particularly close friends, has horrified and appalled every right-thinking person across the country. Shane, Roy and Brian were decent, honourable and respected citizens of Limerick. Both Shane and Roy contributed positively to the social, business and sporting life of our city, but were murdered at the behest of people who continue to show nothing but contempt for the value of human life and the people of Limerick.

With the murders of Shane Geoghegan and Roy Collins the leaders of these gangs have demonstrated the threat they pose to the State and to decent society. The message they sent with the killing of Roy Collins was very clear and unambiguous: "If you dare open your mouth we will get you, no matter how long it takes." No State or society can allow a small number of people to hold it to ransom in this way. Theirs is not a criminality born of want or need. Theirs is not a criminality born of neglect or a deprived childhood. What they inflict on the people of Limerick is beyond criminality. Those who lead these gangs and who order such killings are motivated by sheer greed, depravity and vindictiveness, whether they operate in Limerick, Dublin or elsewhere. They confuse callousness with toughness and inhumanity with bravery. It is all the more sinister that many of these gangs, particularly those in Limerick, have close associations with dissident republican paramilitaries.

The people of Limerick have been shocked and stunned by the sheer ferocity, depravity and vindictiveness of what has happened in recent months. The fact the Collins family, a family deep in mourning for their son, are still being intimidated and threatened demonstrates the absolute inhumanity of those who persecute them. The people of Limerick are angry and frustrated. They want to see the people truly responsible for the killings of Roy Collins and Shane Geoghegan put away. By "responsible" they do not mean just those who carried out the crimes. They also want those who ordered those killings from a safe distance to be punished.

That, among other things, is what this legislation is designed to do. It will help the Garda Síochána in its mission to punish the gangland leaders who pull the strings from a safe distance and send their people out to do these unspeakable deeds. Where evidence cannot be obtained from witnesses, because they are terrified of gangland intimidation of them or their families, we will have the means to use the criminals' conversations, actions and movements in evidence against them. We are empowering our law enforcement and security organisations to use as evidence or corroboration the information and intelligence gathered by a range of methods on the conversations, movements, contacts and methods of operation of key individuals and criminal gangs.

My colleague the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform has set out the main provisions of the Bill. As Minister for Defence I want to briefly address certain aspects of the Bill as it pertains to the Defence Forces. The Garda Síochána and the Defence Forces perform complementary roles in the protection of the security of the State. There is ongoing and close liaison between the Garda Síochána and the Defence Forces regarding internal security matters including in the intelligence field. The Garda Síochána has the primary responsibility for law and order, including the protection of the internal security of the State. In the intelligence field, the Defence Forces act in a complementary role, primarily regarding the gathering and analysis of intelligence on paramilitary activities, while also providing intelligence on external threats. Military intelligence is also responsible for ensuring the security of the Defence Forces against internal threats. This Bill provides a legislative basis for surveillance activities carried out by the security services of the State, including the Defence Forces, in respect of their role in protecting the security of this State.

Deputies will be aware that throughout the period of the Troubles the Defence Forces were deployed extensively in support of the Garda Síochána in protecting the State against the threat from paramilitaries. In this regard it is vitally important that the Defence Forces have the capacity to undertake surveillance and other intelligence-gathering activities to support them in this role and to target their operations. They continue to support the Garda in respect of the potential threat from dissidents and international terrorists. They are also engaged in monitoring and assessing any potential emerging threats. Although the assessment of the threat from international terrorism in Ireland is low it is not one we can ignore. The collection of intelligence and information, including through surveillance, is vital to ensuring the security of the State against any potential threat.

Military intelligence also supports the internal security mechanisms within the Defence Forces to ensure that the security of the Defence Forces and its installations are not compromised. This Bill will support the important activities carried out by the Defence Forces in protecting the security of the State and, perhaps more important now, in supporting the Garda Síochána. It will also enable information and material gained through such surveillance to be admitted as evidence in trials for arrestable offences. At the same time, the Bill also introduces a range of protections in terms of surveillance activities carried out by the security services of the State whereby authorisation of a District Court judge will be required in most cases for the carrying out of such surveillance. The Bill also makes provision for a judicial mechanism to deal with complaints, and for separate oversight of the operation of the Bill by a judge of the High Court.

This legislation is important to me, as Minister for Defence, because it enables and supports our Defence Forces in their important tasks of protecting the State and supporting the Garda Síochána. I also reiterate its particular importance to me, as a long-standing representative of the people of Limerick. This is one of the most important pieces of legislation I have been associated with in my time in Dáil Éireann. Although it is balanced in its provisions, it is a powerful and groundbreaking initiative in nailing crime gang bosses. The leaders of such gangs in Limerick and elsewhere may feel they are invincible. They will learn in time, as others have learned across the world, they are not.

I commend this Bill to the House and urge everybody on all sides of the House to ensure its speedy and efficient passage.

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