Róisín Shortall (Dublin North West, Labour)

I have been supportive of the principle of ensuring that people did not go straight from school or college onto the dole. That is a very bad outcome and a very bad start in life for people and there should be other options in terms of training and education. I am a little concerned that the Minister's proposals are more about cost cutting than actual activation. The concerns I have already expressed about the changes to job-seeker's benefit also apply to that lack of balance. The Minister is referring to 18 and 19-year olds but the provisions in the Bill, both in section 5 and section 6, give the Minister power to withdraw payment to a person of any age. I am somewhat concerned because I do not think there is sufficient balance in the Bill to provide protections for people. I am not saying there is necessarily anything wrong with expecting people to go on a course but we must ensure that they are the right kind of courses and that they are in a position to attend and that a reasonable request is being made.

Section 6 also provides for the Minister to apply a different rate of payment for the under-20s. When this was first announced it appeared very much like a measure to activate people but I am not sure that is what it is turning out to be. The reality is quite different.

I refer to the press statement issued by the Minister on budget night. It said that the full adult rate of the relevant scheme would be paid to 18 and 19-year olds who participate in a full-time Youthreach course for young early school-leavers or a full-time course in a senior Traveller training centre. It further listed qualifying for a back to education allowance by pursuing a full-time second level course or post-leaving certificate course and participating in a full-time FÁS training course. This is fine but the legislation does not mention these schemes. There is no provision in the legislation for people to receive the full rate of payment or equivalent by participating in these courses. The Minister is proposing to make the cut without any kind of guarantee of the balancing provisions that are required.

The rates on those schemes are generally not covered by legislation and can be changed at any time. It is, therefore, not just what the Minister announced on budget night, that if people were to get the full rate of job-seeker's allowance or job-seeker's benefit they would have to participate in a course because all the Minister is doing for the under-20s is providing for a cut in the payment, to cut it by half but not guaranteeing they will receive the equivalent of the full rate if they participate in the course. This is a concern.

I refer to the many exceptions to the case where a young person can participate in a course. As a result of representations from Focus Ireland, the Minister has made provision for one of those categories of people, those coming out of care. However, other categories of people exist who for one reason or another - the numbers are very small - are not in a position to participate in a course. One type of person may be someone who has had a serious drug problem and is attending on a daily basis for methadone maintenance in the morning and go for counselling in the afternoon. People in those circumstances may be few and far between but they are not in a position to attend a course. There are many other circumstances such as where a person may have an illness and may need to attend regularly for treatment or if they have suffered abuse they may need to attend group sessions or counselling.

I am concerned that under these provisions the small number of people in those very vulnerable circumstances cannot be paid the full rate if they are under 20 years, or there is no provision for paying them the full rate. Small numbers of very vulnerable people are likely to lose out because of this. The Minister accepted the principle regarding people coming out of care and I ask her to bear in mind that there are other small minorities of people who, for one reason or another, would not be in a position to attend a course. I am concerned that the Minister is not providing for people in this. She is taking away the payment for under-20s and not replacing it with anything as set out in the legislation.

See this speech in context