Olwyn Enright (Laois-Offaly, Fine Gael)

I thank the Minister for her clarification regarding some of the points. I was not aware of the groupings when I said we might not reach these matters but obviously they are first in priority.

I still have some concerns with regard to the Bill and some questions to which I either have no answers or am not clear about the nature of the answers.

We accept there is some urgency in this, but I should like the Minister to have gone further in some of the provisions. I agree with her response, earlier, on why we did not consider the cap on priorities. I accept people have paid into this but already there will be changes based on the decisions we are taking today, in any event. I do not see why those changes could not have been extended so that we adopt a pro rata approach, making it more difficult at the higher end, rather than having employees in receipt of small pensions suffering more.

I appreciate the Minister's clarification of the point on "substantial deficit". I presume from what she said earlier that if any deficit exists, the restructuring provision can kick in, regardless of how small it is. Are there any safeguards in terms of consent from the Pensions Board? Obviously, it will have to give permission in any event, but the phrase, "substantial deficit" was used and now we are talking about any deficit. I wonder whether there will be differentiation in that.

Again, on the matter of the trustee provision that I raised earlier, I still believe there needs to be differentiation in that regard. I am not clear from what the Minister said a minute ago whether a court will be able to make that distinction when dealing with it. I welcome the Minister's amendment No. 28 in relation to the penalties for employers. This is something that many people have had difficulties with and is relevant to the social welfare system as well in terms of PRSI contributions. This area needs to be strengthened. On a few occasions I have come across employees who believed that payments were being made on their behalf, only to discover later that they were not. Once they are finished with the system, very little can be done for them, however, and this can cause great difficulty for people.

I have a particular concern about the provision dealing with annuities. This needs further examination. Obviously, this will not happen today, but when the Minister brings forward her White Paper, as she says she will, in a few weeks, this is something I should like to see examined. The Minister affirmed that she is not aware of anything coming down the tracks, but at the same time in terms of bringing in these provisions there should be greater clarity on how many schemes she believes will be affected by the changes we are making. I know it will be cost-neutral eventually, but there are financial implications and the Minister should have some notion of that information at this stage, and the types of assets those schemes actually have.

I am not happy with the response on how the State will account for this money. Clearly, from what she said earlier, it will go into the Exchequer in some shape or form. However, what will happen to it then? We shall still have some liability for this and before the House makes decisions on this, I should like to see far greater clarity in what will happen to the money when it is paid into the Exchequer, whether it goes into the general pot, the NPRF or whatever.

In terms of the amendments tabled and the companies that may or may not be included, I specifically asked earlier about schemes such as those for Waterford Crystal and SR Technics, and whether they will now be able to avail of this initiative if they meet the requirements. Does the Minister expect that those types of companies will meet the requirements? Also, is it the Government's intention in terms of the actual practicalness of this, that the NTMA will make the expertise available to sell the annuities? Will it, for example, hire the actuaries, does it have the type of investment expertise necessary for this area or is it work that will be put on offer for existing companies to bid for?

I know it would be a rare precedent for the Attorney General's advice to be aired in the House, but is the Minister aware of any concerns raised by companies in relation to this - from a State aid perspective, separate from the advice the Attorney General gave the Department? Obviously, we are rushing this legislation through the House tonight, against our will, but when does she expect the Minister for Finance to come forward with regulations? Can we expect this to happen by the weekend, given the sense of urgency the Minister attaches to the legislation, or when exactly will this come into being, with companies being able to avail of it?

I know this is something new, a pilot initiative and all the rest, but what was her reason for deciding on a three-year period? Is there a particular logic which indicates that specific timeframe is required to see how it works? Is it expected that we shall be in a different position in three years time, in terms of being removed from where we are now, or what was the reason for this timeframe?

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