Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)

The talks will proceed and their length will depend on the progress that can be made on the issues that arise. On the levy, there is a subjective perspective — people see it in a certain way. The wider context in which the pension levy had to be considered was the need for a €2 billion adjustment to be made as a credible response to the fiscal situation at that time. This was agreed with the social partners. I have not heard from anyone what area of services should have had money deducted if the levy was not to be imposed. If €2 billion was the figure to be obtained, the levy represented €1.4 billion and I have not heard from people on the opposite side where they feel it should have been borne if it was not to be borne there. Where in the services should it have been borne? Should it have been in the health area, for example?

The levy as introduced did not affect existing pensioners. It was a question of the public service employer looking at the financial situation and finding savings to meet the requirements of that situation. One would like to think it would not have been necessary to impose such a levy but it was necessary. I have not heard alternatives in terms of economies that were to be outlined that would make up for the difference, since €2 billion was the figure to be obtained.

The money that has been used to recapitalise the banks will get a coupon. There will be a return for that money, probably a higher return than is available from other avenues of investment at present. It is not a question of being used other than in a way to assist the economy. We need a functioning bank system if we are to have economic recovery and there is more work to be done in that respect. It is also important that the proposals formulated by Government are on the basis of a return being provided for the taxpayer and as an investment by Government in the same way as these pension funds have been invested elsewhere in the past. We have ensured that those funds are available for investment in Ireland in the banking system at a time when it is needed and when a return is being sought by Government on behalf the taxpayer in respect of them.

On the issues raised by the Deputy about individual cases, I introduced the change in the Finance Act 2006 to cover that situation. I also introduced changes in the pension system generally and I would point out there has been a return of the bonus that was paid to the chief executive of the Irish Nationwide Building Society by agreement.

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