David Stanton (Cork East, Fine Gael)

Quangos should be subject to scrutiny in this House by way of parliamentary questions. These are three areas in which change could be introduced immediately. In fairness to the Ceann Comhairle — I do not wish to draw him into the debate too much — he facilitated a discussion between us in this regard.

Currently there exists an official standing sub-committee on Dáil reform, namely, the Committee on Procedure and Privileges which has met only once since the election. Its only meeting was on 8 October 2008, which is not good enough if the Government is serious about Dáil reform. We had a lecture last night from Minister of State, Deputy Sargent. The Green Party in its manifesto states it wants the number of Ministers reduced from 15 to 12 and the number of Ministers of State reduced proportionally. They have moved away from this stance since going into Government although this was admitted last night.

Under pressure, the Government established a working group on Dáil reform on 27 January. I was told on 3 February that the group would meet shortly. On 24 February, I was told the inaugural meeting of the group was planned for a couple of weeks time. The group consists of four members, the Minister for Justice, Equality and Law Reform, Deputy Dermot Ahern, the Minister for Transport, Deputy Noel Dempsey, the Minister of State, Deputy Pat Carey, and Senator Dan Boyle, who are supposed to put forward the Government's argument for Dáil reform. The Opposition has put forward many initiatives but we have heard nothing on them from Government, which is a shame. We need change.

Being a Minister should be a privilege, not an entitlement because one is a Fianna Fáil Deputy. The whole country is talking about this issue. It would be a concrete visible step were the Taoiseach to take the initiative and reduce the number of Ministers of State. Denmark has 20 Ministers and no Ministers of State. The same applies in respect of the Netherlands. Other European countries have fewer Ministers of State than Ireland. I understand that in New Zealand, which has the same population as Ireland, there are 14 Ministers and eight Ministers of State.

The State does not exist to serve Fianna Fáil; it is the other way round. Fianna Fáil has been in Government so long it believes the State is its own fiefdom with which it can do what it likes. It is time for change. Given our current difficulties, and the fact we are asking for change and that people across the country make huge sacrifices, change should start here. There must visible and tangible change in terms of how we do our business. The first step in this regard would be to reduce the number of Ministers of State.

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