Terence Flanagan (Dublin North East, Fine Gael)

I welcome the opportunity to contribute to this debate and I thank my colleagues, Deputies Hogan and Stanton, for bringing forward this timely motion. As the motion makes clear, there was an explosion in the number of Ministers of State in 2007 from 12 to 20. This increase can only be seen as an exercise in doling out jobs for the boys in an effort by the former Taoiseach, Deputy Bertie Ahern, to protect his position as leader of Fianna Fáil.

Much has changed both nationally and internationally since 2007. There can be no doubt that 20 Ministers of State is too many and that we can no longer afford to pay for them or their staff. There are two Ministers of State each in the Departments of Foreign Affairs, Environment, Heritage and Local Government and Agriculture, Fisheries and Food. The Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment has three while, incredibly, there are four at the Department of Health and Children. With more than 350,000 people on the live register and thousands more jobs on the line as more and more businesses make plans to shed staff, the Government needs to urgently reassess this situation. The bottom line is that 20 Ministers of State is an excessive number for a small country such as Ireland.

The large number of Ministers of State and their staff mirrors the excesses present in our health system. We have a bloated administrative structure in the Health Service Executive, with large numbers of middle management staff, but insufficient numbers of front-line personnel. This week, statistics were published for the first time which show that not one of the State's hospitals achieved a satisfactory rating. Something is definitely rotten in this State when we consider the number of people working in our hospitals and these results.

It is outrageous that the taxpayer is paying salaries of €150,000 to Ministers of State and is also paying for an average of eight staff in their private and constituency offices. That is approximately four people in their ministerial offices and four in their constituency offices. Last year it cost the taxpayer €8 million to pay for the 189 staff in the offices of Ministers for State and it cost €3 million to pay for the 20 Ministers of State. There clearly is a question of value for money and what is morally right and acceptable in this economic climate.

The people on the streets are questioning the value of the work these Ministers of State are doing. They are questioning the number of these Ministers of State and are very angry. They want to know what they are doing to contribute to the public good. People are looking for leadership and reform in this area. Where is the accountability? Ministers of State are not required to report to the Dáil or provide a record of the work they have done in their posts to the Dáil.

Last week, my party leader, Deputy Kenny, announced a number of reform measures that need to be introduced in the Dáil and Seanad. If these reforms were implemented they would save the taxpayer between €35 million and €40 million over the term of a Dáil. Included in this package of measures is that the Government should reduce the number of Oireachtas committees from 19 to nine; no ministerial pensions should be paid while a Member continues to serve in either House of the Oireachtas; extend the power of the Oireachtas committees to hold people to account through compellability; and extend the Dáil sitting times to at least four days per week.

As stated in the motion Fine Gael wants the number of Ministers of State to be reduced from 20 to 12. We also want the number of constituency staff working in the offices of Ministers of State to be reduced to two per Minister. Senior Ministers could use their existing staff, policy officers and advisers to do much of the work these Ministers of State do at present. A number of Ministers of State indicated recently in the media that they were prepared to stand down. I ask now that the Taoiseach take these Ministers of State at their word and axe eight Ministers of State in the forthcoming budget.

On 7 April, an emergency budget will be introduced in this House which will certainly inflict more pain and misery on the ordinary taxpayers of this country. How can the Government expect the ordinary taxpayers of this country to take home less pay and accept this if no leadership is shown at the top? Proposals for Dáil and Seanad reform including the details of this motion, which would lead to enormous savings of taxpayers' money, should be included in the budget 7 April.

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