Emmet Stagg (Kildare North, Labour)

I was. As Minister of State with responsibility for housing in the Fianna Fáil-Labour Government, I successfully tackled the housing crisis. I went on to serve as Minister of State with responsibility for the alternative energy sector in the Fine Gael-Labour Government, where I laid the foundation for an industry that is now booming. Therefore, I am not of the view that Ministers of State are a waste of time or space. They often do a good job within the democracy we all serve.

Having examined the matter, the Labour Party is of the view that the number of Ministers of State should be reduced to 15. The rationale behind this proposal is that there should be one Minister of State serving the relevant senior Minister in each Department and being responsible to a standing legislative committee. It is essential that effective powers are transferred to the Ministers of State so that they have a specific remit with clear responsibilities and targets. Without a transfer of power order, which is made by the Government, Ministers of State are reduced to "gofers" for their senior Minister and have no effective role. I am interested to know whether such orders were made for the current crop of less than outstanding officeholders, present company excluded. They look tired and worn out and give Ministers of State a bad name.

However, such changes would be little more than window dressing and a sop to public anger unless they are accompanied by reform of the Oireachtas committee system. There are now serious duplications between several committees and these must be rationalised. Nevertheless, committees play an important role in dealing with legislation on Committee Stage and in offering an opportunity to a wide cross-section of the citizenry to be consulted, to present their case and to be heard. This is an important tool of democracy and it should be guarded zealously.

The aspect of reform by which I am most exercised is the matter of the transfer of the powers bestowed on this House by the people to faceless and unaccountable quangos, agencies or boards. This ongoing practice has diluted our democracy by taking power from the people and their representatives and handing it over to so-called independent agencies. I assume their independence consists solely in being independent of the people's representatives.

In its amendment to the motion, the Government puts great store by its establishment of a committee on Dáil reform. This committee comprises the Fianna Fáil Whip and the Green Party Whip and effectively replaces the previous committee on Dáil reform which had no paid chairman or convenor and included all the party Whips. We have heard much in recent times from the Government about co-operation from the Opposition. The exclusion of the Opposition in this instance shows the shallowness of these calls for co-operation. I have been involved with the Dáil reform committee for some years and every proposal, including many from Fianna Fáil representatives, was blocked by the Government.

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