Michael D'Arcy (Wexford, Fine Gael)

Then I can keep going.The measure of any society is how well we look after those who are less capable of looking after themselves, but our society is not doing this. We are not prepared to take on public sector reform courageously by removing excesses and non-productive areas. In my view, an example should be set by the leadership of the State which means the Government and the Taoiseach. The excessive numbers within the junior ministerial ranks is extreme.

I refer to a point made by Deputy Shatter about the Green Party. I do not necessarily agree with everything he said but, in my view, the Minister of State, Deputy Trevor Sargent, is one of the few people who acted with the courage of his convictions. He said he would not go into Government with Fianna Fáil——

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