Mary O'Rourke (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)

I, too, am pleased to welcome this Bill following its long passage through the Seanad. By chance I hit upon some of the contributions made in the Seanad. It received detailed scrutiny there and worthwhile suggestions were put forward, particularly on dealing with the issue of homelessness on which I will comment later.

I very much approve of a Bill of this nature. It seeks to bring together some of the many changes that have happened in housing in recent years and to put some of them on a statutory footing. It is a forward looking Bill. As the Minister of State and those of us who are public representatives and deal with housing matters will be aware, housing is an issue that is constantly presented to us, regardless of what changes are made or what new and innovative measures are introduced. I very much appreciate now, as I did many years ago when I was a local authority member, that the mind set of the Department, which may have been termed the Department of Local Government then, was innovative, as were county managers and housing officers in dealing with housing needs of people. Housing needs constantly change. People's housing needs are complex and they change against the backdrop of changes in society.

It was interesting to read the Minister of State's contribution and to hear the excellent contributions of the two Members who have spoken thus far in the debate. I was a secondary school teacher when I became involved in politics at local authority level many years ago and I recall thinking at the time that if everybody had the chance of a good education, the world would right itself. I later began to think that as well as a good education everybody should have the opportunity to have a decent house and that if they had a good education and a decent house, they would be set on a fair path in life. I have not altered my mind on those matters. Increasingly more people come to see me about housing matters. Members may well say they are matters for local authority members and they may ask why am I dealing with them. Be that as it may, I want to deal with them because I am intensely interested in housing and in ensuring that people get a chance to set themselves up in a decent house and can avail of the various schemes available.

This is a time of economic stringency and the Minister of State stated that openly. He said this Bill was being introduced against a background of strong housing provision in 2008 and equally strong provision, albeit by a small margin, in 2009. There will not be a bottomless pit in terms of such provision, therefore, it is important that departmental officials and ministerial officials adopt an innovative approach to overcoming difficulties. As the Minister said, there should be a modern and an appropriate legislative framework in place to allow local authorities to carry out their functions as housing authorities. The implementation of new schemes is often imposed on local authorities. When the rental accommodation scheme, RAS, was introduced, I recall local authorities were simply told it was a new scheme that was been implemented. This legislation is well thought out and all the new schemes will be put on a statutory footing. They can then be expanded or deleted as required. I very much like the way the functions of the housing authority are set out in the Bill, as well as the housing services plan. Those provisions are useful. Local authority members will now have a strong say and will provide the basis for the managerial carry through of housing action programmes. The programmes will be the delivery mechanism of the plans and will be prepared by the manager, but the basis of the plans will have been agreed by the local authority members. That is also a positive aspect.

Putting the rental accommodation scheme on a statutory footing is a good measure. Not enough people know about it. Local authority staff in town halls and county council offices will advise clients about it. However, when this Bill, as amended, is passed in this House and ratified in the Seanad, it would be useful for the Minister of State and his Department to issue a comprehensive booklet detailing the various schemes available through housing authorities at town hall or county council level, setting out that they have a statutory framework and how the people can inquire about them. The Minister of State's Department is good at doing that.

I have dealt with some clients who did not know about the RAS scheme. It was introduced at the end of 2005 or early 2006, but it has not been utilised enough. When I mention it to people, they appear not to have heard of it. Local authority officials will explain it to people. It is a good scheme. It gives a sitting tenant or a person on the social housing list a chance of getting decent housing and it has the added bonus that the landlord is spancelled in terms of what he can charge in rent, which is a good feature of the scheme.

When the affordable housing scheme was introduced, around the same time as RAS, five or six years ago, it was hailed as a good idea, which it was. It caught people's imagination and was the flavour of the month. People were in full employment and could consider purchasing an affordable home. Two factors arose, namely, the boom in the economy which enabled a person who was earning enough money to purchase his or her own home and the fact that the council could supply the home under the affordable housing scheme. I have two caveats. First, that was then and this is now. There is no doubt that in a time of declining employment I am coming across people in difficulties regarding the affordable housing scheme. At least they are with the local authority which will have a measure of justice and approachability in dealing with people getting into difficulties. There is a particular caveat I have in mind. I do not ever think the affordable housing scheme should be part of a giant local authority housing scheme with a very large number of housing units. I am aware of one such scheme that has not worked out. I know the original idea was to have social housing and affordable housing cheek by jowl very happy — they are not. In many cases people tell me they would love their houses if they could bring them somewhere else. That is not possible, as we know. I agree it was a fine philosophical point to have affordable and social housing side-by-side. While I accept it is accompanied by a very strong anti-social behaviour strategy, there are considerable dangers in such an approach in a very large housing scheme where difficulties abound.

There are two issues with affordable housing. One is that it was affordable when the person or couple first got it but it may not be affordable now in the changed economic climate. That should be closely monitored. While I am sure we will continue to have affordable housing, it should be at a very practical level and affordable homes should not be in a very large local authority project — I know there is a general move away from that. It is interesting to note how housing provision waxes and wanes. It moves from large schemes to smaller schemes and then back again to larger ones. Based on my local knowledge the best kind of scheme is one of manageable size that will allow people, whether in social or affordable housing, to encompass one and other while also having some OPDs. It is very useful for older people to live in a scheme where they see children going to and from school and see people going about their daily lives. I never believed in enclaves of OPDs, which are like Florida at home, so to speak, and I do not think highly of them. There should be a mixture, albeit a small-scale mixture.

The Minister referred to anti-social behaviour in strong terms. Joint policing committees have been established in urban and county areas. I attended the initiation of one in County Westmeath. Those bodies working through the local authorities will have a very positive effect on anti-social behaviour. It is not good enough that people get a fine local authority house in a good urban neighbourhood and then proceed to play pup. I would be all for being tolerant and I am noted for being very social minded, but I cannot see how people are able to give to free rein to their excesses in all sorts of ways and disrupt other people who wish to live their lives and rear their families in a fairly decent way. Some good people are benighted by behaviour such as is carried out in many housing estates.

This behaviour used to be just in one housing estate and people would refer to it as a bad estate. It is now creeping. I do not know if some of the blame can be placed at the door of the enormous wave of consumerism that hit us in the past five, six or seven years. I do not think so. Parents have children who need minding and caring regardless of their age. Therefore the seeds of anti-social behaviour can be often based on lack of responsibility. If people have a house, it is their house and it is up to them to mind it. I would strongly encourage the local authorities, local Garda and local joint policing committees to develop a strong anti-social behaviour strategy.

I understand the Minister of State will deal with homelessness in a series of amendments on Committee Stage, of which I greatly approve. Homelessness is real and is not something we dream up. One of the previous speakers spoke about people lying in porches and porticos of buildings throughout the city. We all know there is homelessness. Some people do not want to be helped and we need to come to grips with that. There are people who, regardless of how much help is proffered to them, do not wish to avail of it. That is their free will and they cannot be bludgeoned into taking whatever help is on offer. Leaving that to one side, there is a real need to deal with genuine homeless people. I know the Minister of State means well in his proposed amendments.

Approaches can be made to the local housing officer, for example, in the town hall in Athlone suggesting that the council should consider purchasing a good house in a good terrace that is for sale with a view to giving it to somebody on the housing list. We did a lot of that, particularly last year. There is a fear this year that the finance will not be available for such houses. However, I regard it as the very best way of dealing. The market is down regardless of whether it is in Dublin, Donegal, Dingle or Athlone. There is an opportunity, therefore, for local authorities to purchase decent homes in settled communities. I know the Minister of State is battling manfully to retain finance for this area. As the Bill shows, it is not always the provision of finance that is the defining matter for homelessness. It is the provision of ideas and creativity as well as putting things on a proper footing and having a framework for housing. All of that can be dealt with even in a time of stringent economic conditions. It does not close down one's mind — one's mind stays open and can see the big picture, which is reflected in the Bill. However, I hope the provision of finance to purchase existing houses in decent neighbourhoods — not necessarily posh neighbourhoods — at affordable prices continues and that there is not a reduction in the provision of finance for such purchasing by the local authority.

I strongly admire the women and men in local authority offices. Obviously, I can speak only for those in my own county and town, who genuinely seek to meet the needs of those on their housing lists. Housing lists are growing, which is why putting these schemes on a statutory footing and widening them to help people is very important. Those officers deal with people sensitively and with great patience. They also deal with us, elected representatives, with great patience as we continue to approach them on behalf of our constituents.

Early in my political life I decided if one had a good education and had a chance of a good house, one had a chance to serve the people. I remain very strongly of that mind as I deal with people every week on the provision of housing. I welcome the Bill and look forward to its passage and to listening to what people have to say. I look forward to seeing the Opposition and Government amendments. I know the Minister has already signalled his intention to introduce a raft of such amendments. I look forward to being part of that process, but I hope the Bill does not go on forever. While I hope anyone who wants to speak has a chance to do so, I would like to see the provisions coming into play. I commend the actions of the Minister of State in dealing with this very important issue.

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