Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)

This amendment is similar to an amendment moved by the Labour Party on the night of the debate concerning the bank guarantee scheme and recently with regard to the pension levy on public service pensions. The proposed amendment is very simple in that it states that bankers' pay should be capped at the same level as that of the Minister for Finance.

I do not have to explain the idea. I heard from reports of the Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheis last weekend that in his warm-up speech to the Taoiseach's address, the Minister for Transport, Deputy Dempsey, described the bankers as having done great damage. He did not mean the ordinary bank staff but the people at the top echelons of the banks, those on the boards, chairpersons and particularly the senior executives and some of the people in Anglo Irish Bank who ended up, as the Minister said when the revelations about directors' loans emerged, did enormous damage to Ireland's reputation. The Minister for Transport is reported as having said that the damage done by the bankers was as bad as the damage done by Cromwell but that Cromwell at least did not just have a purely financial motive.

If the Minister for Finance shares the analysis of the Minister, Deputy Dempsey, and those who attended the Ard-Fheis who gave him a standing ovation — which the Minister for Finance who was there can confirm, if he can remember, as it often difficult to remember the details of Ard-Fheiseanna and party conferences as they tend to become blurred in one's mind immediately after the event — there is now an opportunity to revisit Cromwell. I would be astonished if the Minister did not accept this amendment.

I recall the famous quote Cromwell made in regard to the King in a speech he gave to the Rump or Long Parliament in the 1640s or 1650s when he said "In the name of God, go!" I have already said in regard to the Taoiseach, Deputy Cowen, and particularly the Minister, Deputy Dempsey, that I was surprised they did not also recall Cromwell's comments because they were famously subsequently quoted by a high ranking Tory MP, Mr. Amery to Neville Chamberlain after the disaster of Munich when Mr. Amery said that Chamberlain had done as much as he could do and that he should, "In the name of God, go!"

Given that members of Fianna Fáil were discussing bankers and Cromwell at the weekend, they might revisit the history of Cromwell. If the Fianna Fáil Ard-Fheis enthusiastically characterised the behaviour of some senior bankers as being in the same category as what Cromwell did to Ireland, the pillage, burnings, lootings and so on, except that this was economic damage inflicted on this country in a terrible way, why then is Fianna Fáil shy and reluctant to act? We know that members of Fianna Fáil are not normally shy, reluctant, backward or unwilling to step out into the spotlight. Therefore, it must be asked why are they so unwilling to take action against the bankers, action that makes perfect sense?

We are not being so radical as to say, as per the Roundheads, "Off with their heads". We are simply saying that their pay should be limited to the same level as that of the esteemed Minister for Finance. His salary package before the various levies are applied is just under €240,000, his ministerial expenses from what we know are approximately €60,000 or €70,000 and every Minister has a chauffeur driven car, with the car supplied by the State. That package adds up to approximately €350,000. In the name of God, to paraphrase Cromwell, why can the pay of the bankers not be restricted and why can the Minister not do that now?

This Bill is concerned with handing over €7 billion of our money to the banks in order to rescue them. We are agreed on the principle that the banks need to be rescued, particularly our two big banks, Allied Irish Bank and Bank of Ireland, because they are fundamental to our economy. They operate in every town and village in Ireland, are critical to the supply of credit to small and large businesses up and down the country and to retaining, maintaining and stabilising employment. Jobs is what this is about.

When he was in the House some hours ago the Taoiseach confessed that the Government anticipates that the jobless total, the number of people who will be unemployed, by the end of this year may have reached 450,000. That is a national tragedy, as big I suggest to the Minister for Transport, Deputy Dempsey, as the tragedy Cromwell inflicted on this country and the damage that the bankers have done recently.

Why is the Government reluctant to limit the pay of the bankers? I have heard the Taoiseach say on a number of occasions that there is a committee of senior mandarins and other great people working on this and I understand they have been working on it since last Christmas. We were told today that we are facing another harsh budget sometime in the first week of April. We were told that the hole that the Government proposes to plug is €2 billion to €2.5 billion or maybe more in terms of income tax increases to address the fall in the tax revenue announced in the Exchequer figures yesterday, and an increase of €1 billion to €1.5 billion in spending, apparently due mainly to increases in the numbers of people signing on the live register and claiming unemployment and to increases in demands for medical cards as a result of people being unemployed.

The Minister will look to the ordinary taxpayer in this respect. Make no mistake about it, we will be looking for Fianna Fáil to address the issue of the people who got so much out of this economy in the good days and had the opportunity to avail of the tax shelters to which the then Minister Charlie McCreevy was addicted and the then Minister, Deputy Cowen, did not have the courage to close. They made the bubble in the economy worse. Yet, from what we hear from Fianna Fáil they will not be targeted, rather it will be the ordinary family, that of a husband and wife with two children in their 30 to 40s who will pay even more come the first week in April. In view of this why can the Minister not agree to cap the salaries of the bankers?

If the Minister has a better amendment I would be happy to withdraw this one. I am sure Fine Gael will also co-operate to allow the Minister to change the figure. If it comes up to €300,000 or €350,000, I will not quibble. I heard the chief executive of Allied Irish Bank say the other day that he expects his salary will have come down to approximately €700,000 this year. God love him, that is terrible. He was earning €2 million or €3 million a year and his salary has gone down to €700,000.

I do not believe that the families who will have to bear the brunt of the new wave of tax increases the Government seems to be about to propose in April can accept very great pain and hardship unless there is some notion of fairness. Fairness in terms of the bankers is seeing them return and undo some of the damage they have done to the economy. We are putting our shirts on this measure by putting €7 billion into the banks. We are not saying to the bankers that they should join the dole queue and see what it feels like for the 450,000 people who may be unemployed by the end of the year but we are saying they can join a gold plated dole queue by restricting themselves to the salary, emoluments and the compensation package of our Minister for Finance. What can be wrong with that? A sign of leadership is needed from the Minister. I encourage him and I hope he can accept this Labour Party amendment.

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