Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)

I have been listening to other contributors to this Second Stage debate. We must remember that we are now in very changed times; the whole country knows that the economy is in a state of convulsion. The banking system has collapsed to all intents and purposes and this is the context in which the Bill is being discussed. We should remind ourselves that this Bill did not result from events in these chastened times; it comes from a time when we thought we would never see a poor day again. The economy going into free fall has taken us all by surprise. This Bill is two years in the making and two years ago Ireland was a very different country. Some people would say that it was like we were on a different planet. This is the context in which this legislation was framed. I worry that our attitude towards this legislation will be different now from what it was then because of how our circumstances have changed.

People refer to the elderly as if they were a group of people completely alien to us. With any luck, we will be the elderly and this legislation will cover us in the future. When a child is very young and someone comments that it will not be long before he or she is grown up, I reply by saying that with any luck they will grow up, be healthy, rounded adults and live into old age. Not everyone is blessed with that luck but those listening to us today, with any luck, will live to become one of the group of people we refer to as the elderly.

I am astonished that the first major piece of legislation produced by the Government dealing with the elderly — dealing with our lives in the future — is about how we can pay for their care in nursing homes. A campaign for active citizenship attempted to show that one could live healthily in one's old age and still participate. Two groups, the Senior Citizens' Parliament and Age Action Ireland, are lobby groups on behalf of the elderly but I ask what part does the State play. When it comes to the elderly, the State has put itself in the position of being a bystander. This Bill makes us the middleman. We are now the banker. We will now advance loans which will be repaid when a property is disposed of. Is this the way the Government treats the elderly? Is that the way we wish to be treated when we reach that stage? Speaking personally, the answer is "No". That is not how I wish to be treated and it is not how I wish any elderly person I know to be treated by the State. It is outrageous.

I can understand the Minister's position. However, we had a Minister for Health and Children who did not read his brief, he made a mistake and, as a result, the elderly will have to pay. What we are doing is an outrage. We have sectionalised society. One section is called the public service and such people are to be treated differently with levies and income reductions to pay for their pensions, as if a pension was some kind of golden handshake one should not expect to receive. Everyone should have a pension and enough to live on in that glamorous state that is old age, but that does not seem to be the case and those who have a pension are to be penalised.

Children are dealt with as if they were separate elements of society but today we are dealing with the ultimate different section of society, the elderly. The reason the elderly are not cared for in their own homes is because of the cutbacks in Government funding for equipment and the disabled person's grant. If another survey of the elderly was conducted, they would state clearly and categorically, as they have in the past, that they want to remain in their own communities and in their own homes. Very few of them need to go into nursing homes. I do not wish to frighten the horses but it seems the average time anyone spends in a nursing home is about 18 months to two years. Deputy Perry will confirm this is about three years less than in other European countries.

See this speech in context