Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)

I hope all Deputies will see sense. If enough of us express our honest opinion, the Government will withdraw this Bill.

The Bill creates 23 new criminal offences. The authority will be given the power to impose on-the-spot fines on employers without giving them the chance to rectify any problem. Employers could face fines of up to €250,000 for failing to keep adequate records, fines of up to €5,000 for other offences and prison sentences of up to five years. Are we for real? It does not even distinguish between an employer who employs a small number of people and a large employer with 1,000 staff.

Do people understand how difficult it is in this day and age to start one's own small business? It is hard enough to get the finance to do it but we are then imposing all sorts of obligations on a small employer to have notices everywhere about employees' rights and all of that. We are not living in the real world. I want to encourage people to go out and start their own small businesses and, hopefully, expand and give employment to others.

Employers have a moral obligation to be fair and reasonable to any employee — that is taken as read and is as it should be. If some abuse the rights of any employee, there is the Minister of State responsible for a labour affairs and all of the other authorities, including the Rights Commissioner Service, the Employment Appeals Tribunal, the Equality Tribunal, the Department of Social and Family Affairs in regard to pensions, and the Health and Safety Authority. We have all of these bodies but we now want to add another layer on to all of this. People must begin to understand it is difficult with all the red tape to start up a small business and to keep things ticking over.

If people are abusing workers, in particular immigrants to this country, and not giving them a fair crack of the whip, there are sufficient laws in place to deal with them. If the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment was to increase the number of inspectors available to investigate issues, that is all that is needed. We do not need five offices in Carlow, Dublin, Cork, Sligo and Shannon. We do not need a quango with a whole structure and a head office with all the trimmings, annual reports and consultants — consultants for what?

This really is an example of how we can lose the run of ourselves in terms of giving commitments to do things. At a time when there was plenty, or people thought there was plenty, it was a luxury nobody really thought about. However, in this day and age, we cannot do that. To talk about putting people in prison for five years or charging them on-the-spot fines of anything up to €250,000 for failing to keep adequate records is to throw out the baby with the bath water. It is extraordinary. The National Employment Rights Authority, NERA, will be able to use powers similar to those of the Garda, the customs authorities and the Competition Authority. It will be able to enter and inspect a workplace, seal it off, and remove documents. It does not require any basis to do so. It can be done on the basis of a complaint. This is not Russia, it is a democracy and people here have rights. The fact that one is an employer does not make one a big bad wolf. We need employers, those who employ one person and those who employ 5,000 people. We should begin to encourage people into this business and cut out half of the red tape already in place, rather than produce more of it.

Some time ago I spoke to a constituent concerning the electrical industry. There is a new section in the Bill dealing with compliance with registered employment agreements in the electrical contracting industry. Will the Minister provide a detailed description of what exactly this means? It is difficult to discern the meaning from reading the Bill. The person who came to me made a plea for the Minister to do something about another quango, established to collect money and the purpose of which no one seems to know. Section 45, dealing with compliance with registered employment agreements in the electrical contracting industry covers several pages. Will the Minister provide a full, detailed account of its purpose and why it is necessary? It seems that someone thought it would be a bright idea to support another quango.

The main purpose for which I am here this evening is to request that the Minister withdraw the legislation. It is not to condone bad behaviour on the part of any employer against an employee. We should come back down to earth and realise that there is a Civil Service, with top officials who are quite capable and who have worked for years in this area. There have been several very good Ministers of State with responsibility for labour affairs who were elected by the people. They were able to resolve difficulties and problems by encouraging people to discuss them at the negotiating table. There is also the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment which can deal with these matters.

All that is necessary is more inspectors. Let us cut out this nonsense of more offices, directors, quangos, reports and consultants, for which there is no justification. Let us examine where it is possible to reduce red tape and encourage more employment. Let us cut out these extra layers of bureaucracy. There are many agencies already in existence which deal with people's rights. It is not the case that we are crying out for additional agencies. Let us be realistic and not discuss shoving people into prison or imposing a fine of €250,000 for not displaying notices. What message does that send out to someone wishing to start a business? It does nothing but encourage small businesses into the black economy.

A small business person running a plumbing, electrical or carpentry business does not have time to keep all the necessary material for no good reason. Such people pay taxes, insurance, social welfare and all the other requirements of an employer. Let them get on with the job rather than create another agency with jobs for various people. Not alone will newly appointed people have a job in the agency, an advisory board with a chairman and board members will also be established in case anyone is left out. There are many of jobs for the boys in the thousand quangos already in existence without creating another one.

See this speech in context