Mary O'Rourke (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)

I am pleased to contribute to this debate. Before discussing the main part of the issue, I wish to state how we abhor what occurred in this rural village in a rural county in Ireland. The depravity which it exhibited is forever etched in our minds. However, I am very much afraid that outrage fades. People may be outraged today, but then a fresh disaster may arise, whether it be something of this nature or something of a more technical nature. If this occurs, then the utter depravity of what we have heard in the courts last week can fade from our minds and, with that, the urgency which should accompany the investigation into those awful acts may fade also.

This was not merely depravity, as every vestige of innocence and dignity was taken from those six children. Professionals who were in the court that day tell me the six children are broken people. What they now face in their lives is terrible and no matter what counselling or help they receive, they forever are injuriously marked by what happened to them.

While there is absolutely no excuse for what happened, life will go on and the outrage will fade. Therefore, it is extremely important that the committee which has been set up to investigate this matter does so expeditiously, professionally and with a clear mandate regarding what it must do. I have every faith in the fine woman who will lead the investigation and have every faith in the professionals. While it is very easy for Members to throw brickbats at the HSE, in this case the personnel who have been selected will do their job. Moreover the chairperson has stated that if she requires further powers, she will revert to the Minister, who presumably then will revert to the Oireachtas, to set up, if required, further powers to investigate the matter fully.

There was much comment over the weekend in various newspapers, journals, as well as on radio and television, about what must be done. I am chair of the Joint Committee on the Constitutional Amendment on Children, which has been mentioned in the amendment to Deputy Shatter's motion. As the Leas-Cheann Comhairle and Deputy Shatter are aware, it has met 33 times and its members have worked mightily and well. I fully commend each member of the joint committee. They are a remarkable group of people, who bring their professional expertise and knowledge of people. One serves on a committee of this House because one brings to it one's strengths as a public representative, as well as whatever professional experience one might have built up over the years. Last September, the joint committee issued an all-party recommendation on soft information, an issue which heretofore had proved intractable. It has gone to the Government and to the Attorney General for compilation in legislation and the Minister for State, Deputy Barry Andrews, tells me it is in gestation. It will remove an issue that recently has arisen in respect of the church's investigations, namely, a fear expressed by its representatives in respect of some matters to the effect that they cannot exchange information. However, once this proposal is in legislative form, this issue should be rectified and I am glad of that.

At present, the joint committee is finalising the second part of its report and I hope it will be ready within the next few weeks. Thereafter, its members will embark upon its agenda of dealing with the rights of children as individuals. Children have rights within the ambit of their families, which also is correct. While everyone might wish that every child would have a happy family life, no matter what one does, it is not always so. While some things happen occasionally that are not of much import, to subject six children to living in that house in that rural County Roscommon village and to expect they could be left there and that this would be their experience of childhood because they are members of a family, is mind-bogglingly wrong and is no way to treat a family.

Members of the Oireachtas should be aware that the way ahead for bringing forward a constitutional referendum on the rights of the child will be very troubled. Although the wording to be used in the referendum has yet to be decided, no matter how one tries to do this, no matter what words are employed, no matter how the words are used and no matter how fairly they are couched, they will be perceived by many as an attack on the family. There is a belief that what goes on beyond the hall door should remain there, within the privacy of a family and that this is the best place for it. This is not true if children are being abused or being neglected, as they were in this case. While I do not wish to say more, I understand there will be more to follow.

I hope the sense of outrage does not fade. Perhaps, in its summing up, this investigation may find there was a lack of cross-agency interaction or a need for greater resources. I do not know. It may find that methods of work should be further explored in a different fashion. If it is found that there is a lack of cohesion or completeness in how the various monitoring regimes are put into effect, and I am sure this is the case, then this matter must be attended to immediately. This House has done a good job to debate this issue. As the Leas-Cheann Comhairle is aware, this issue has been debated at the Joint Committee on the Constitutional Amendment on Children and the more this issue is discussed and highlighted, the better the chance that such occasions will become fewer in number.

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