Kathleen Lynch (Cork North Central, Labour)

My dealings with banks would have involved putting money in, taking money out, trying to get a mortgage and trying to get loans for elections. At that level, the majority of people I have dealt with are very civil, courteous and nice people, who do their level best to try to help out. Having lost an election and gone back to them seeking more money for another election, if I had been on the other side of the counter I am not certain that I would have given that loan. However, the banks did. At that level there are people who are decent and hard working, and genuinely care and know their own community. That is why they are behind those counters.

There is another level in banking that none of us knows. While some Ministers may know it, I definitely do not and I doubt if I ever will. Comparisons need to be made. What is the difference between Enron and Anglo Irish Bank? The difference is that Enron was dealt with by the bastion of capitalism, America. It was dealt with because it hid from its shareholders information it should have given them. When it was discovered that it had done so, the US Government did not move in to bail it out. Its directors were not protected and did not walk away with golden handshakes. They are in jail because the one crime a company cannot commit in capitalism is to delude its shareholders. That is what happened in Anglo Irish Bank. The Anglo Irish Bank board members sat before the shareholders not at the recent EGM, but at the last AGM and did not disclose the true facts to them. If that is a crime in America, which is the bastion of capitalism, is it not a crime here? Do people have no recourse? I find it outrageous.

Other comparisons need to be made. Ireland has experienced a twofold whammy with what has happened in the building industry and the banking crisis. The very people, who have put at risk the lives and lifestyles of so many of our citizens and put at risk their homes, jobs, cars and children's futures, are exactly the same people who are riding off into the sunset with golden handshakes. I will not name any individual because it does not stop with an individual. I do not believe there was just one individual in Anglo Irish Bank; I believe there were more than that. I do not believe only one individual is involved in other areas; there are more. The Financial Regulator is about to ride off into the sunset with a big pension and pay-off. The man in Anglo Irish Bank is riding off into the sunset with a big pay-off and pension. The top man in FÁS is riding off into the sunset with a big pension and pay-off.

The people who are directly affected by this are sitting there, wringing their hands and asking us why no one is held responsible. When the economy picks up, and it will pick up, those same people will be asked to pick up the tab for the golden handshakes of the people that put them into this in the first place. Those are the things I do not understand and I am sure I am not the only one. It is outrageous that this should happen.

Putting an inspector into Anglo Irish Bank is the very least we should seek. Someone needs to go in there to find out what happened and who is responsible. As I said, I do not believe only one individual is responsible. What are we going to do about the Irish Nationwide Building Society? A director took his loan and moved it because the auditors were about to come in. I am assuming that favour did not go unrecalled. What are we doing about that? I got a feeling of déjÀ vu listening to the Minister today. Originally, the Minister said the banking system was sound, so we did not need to recapitalise. Then we were not going to nationalise. Then we did all those things. There is a fundamental problem in our banking system which needs to be dealt with. What we are doing here today, as Deputy Burton rightly said, is tinkering around the outskirts. This is not a bank in the normal sense of the word. It is not a bank that I go to looking for a loan for a house, my car or my children's education. It is not that type of bank. It is a betting shop, where people went and took gambles. For some it did not pay off, but in some cases it paid off very handsomely. When I stood up 20 years ago and said we should nationalise the banks, this was not what I had in mind. What we are now looking at is the nationalisation of a large debt incurred by people who are now walking away, having been handsomely rewarded. We are going to allow them to stroll off into the sunset, while the people who are directly affected by it will be paying for this for the rest of their lives. I do not think it is good enough that the Minister can stand here and say there are sensitive commercial reasons he cannot give us the information. That is rubbish. We are all adults here, and if we are acting on behalf of the taxpayer we need to know that information. We need to know exactly what we are doing. We cannot make decisions based on no information.

The other thing that struck me as interesting today was the speech of the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources. When he stood up to speak I genuinely felt he was reading from a chart about conflict resolution. First, one identifies the problem. Then one stops taking harmful action. Next, one asks the other party how they think it should be solved. The Minister started by telling us exactly what the problem was, although we all know what the problem is. He then went on to tell us how we should solve it with robust legislation to ensure that the Financial Regulator has teeth and can act on our behalf. I may not know a lot about banking, but I know a little bit about how this place works. Is it not the job of the Minister to bring in legislation to make sure the regulator has teeth and can take action to protect us? The Minister is telling us what he should be doing. The way this has gone is quite worrying. People out there tell me every day of the week that we need a little hope and a little trust, and above all else we need to reassure ourselves that this Government knows what it is doing. Today's performance gives us none of these.

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