Joan Burton (Dublin West, Labour)

——our flow of credit and the jobs in this country. That is what this is about.

Is the Minister satisfied that those in his Department are able to advise him properly on this? They managed to get almost all the forecasts wrong when the economy was doing well, and got them even more disastrously wrong when it was not doing well. The people in the Department of Finance have many fine qualities and they are probably reasonably good administrators. However, are they good at the business of managing a banking crisis and being the Minister's main advisers? With regard to the Minister's strategy, why is he relying almost exclusively on those in the Department of Finance, many of whom are essentially administrators? I do not know how many bankers or accountants work in the Department of Finance, although I know some economists work there. However, we do not hear from that side of the Department. If we are to restore Ireland's credibility and reputation, we need to put a line under what has happened. We need to be able to say we are moving into a new era and from now on we are going to manage our banks well. We have a very strong record in the National Treasury Management Agency of good management of the national debt. We took that function from the Department of Finance a long time ago in order to better manage the debt. Does the Minister have any ideas about how to improve his command and control and the advice he is receiving in these incredibly difficult times? This is not just for the Government but for the businesses that are at risk and the people who fear losing their jobs, or have lost them already, and who want some hope.

Almost everybody in this Chamber has been impressed by the bipartisan approach operating in the United States Congress, although it can be shambolic at times. However, the critical thing about such an approach is that one can actually get information. The Minister stood up to make a statement about nationalising a bank. On 30 September, his officials sent me the accounts of Anglo Irish Bank. I thank them for this. They also sent me a note on the breakdown in depositor numbers, for which I am eternally grateful. Those are the first figures I got. My background is as an accountant, and I find it astonishing that as a national Parliament we make a decision with no financial information. The Minister reads out a list in a rapid speech. I want to know how good the loans are, how many of them are at risk, and what is the Minister's evaluation of risk.

Let us suppose, for example, that a developer was buying ten acres in Longford to build 100 houses. The developer has bought the land for €10 million with no planning permission — it is a speculative development — putting in €2 million himself and borrowing €8 million from the bank. Who will now build the houses in that field? Similar fields exist on the edge of every town in Ireland. Who will build houses in them for the next ten to 20 years? International investors want to know that the Minister has a handle on this situation. Is that field in Longford, or in west Dublin, still worth €10 million? If it is now worth €8 million, which is the total loaned by the bank, that is fine, as the only thing that happens is that the developer is down €2 million. However, what if it is not even worth €8 million? Maybe it is not even worth €2 million, because nobody is going to develop that field for many years. That is the fundamental question that international investors — who are often themselves small, medium or large business people — would ask. With a bipartisan approach, I would have the opportunity to ask such questions, and my colleagues in the Opposition parties — and, I dare say, some of the Minister's Fianna Fáil colleagues, who are solid business people — would also wish to ask them.

If it is necessary to provide some of this information to us in private, well and good. We can set out rules for that. However, it is crazy that we are being asked to spend only five hours debating a Bill. We know about the fundamental problems in this bank and we need answers about the contracts for difference and the build-up of the stake. We need to know what exactly the loan book is like. We know much of it is dependent on or related to construction and we are told some of it is supported by rent rolls. However, we need answers to those questions. If the Taoiseach feels disappointed that the Opposition Members are rather cynical and doubtful, the solution lies in the Minister's hands.

The Taoiseach has just come back from Japan. He spent a week there and it must have been the worst foreign trip experienced by anybody. From Japan the Taoiseach suggested that it should be business as usual for the banks. Did he not know that business as usual for the Japanese banks condemned the zombie banks of Japan, and Japan itself, to ten years as a zombie economy? What we want from the Minister today is a strategy, not just for Anglo Irish Bank but for all the big banks, which will allow us to save our economy, sustain employment and keep business going.

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