Michael Creed (Cork North West, Fine Gael)

The Acting Chairman might tell me when five minutes remain in the slot. Being here today is like waking up from a bad dream. It has also been a very expensive lesson for the State. We have previously had agricultural debates in this Chamber and in committee where we haggled over sums far less than the €180 million relevant here. Some €9.3 million would restore the installation aid and early retirement scheme on a national level when money is not as plentiful as it was. We cannot find €10 million for a cervical cancer vaccination programme.

That puts into context the extent of the crisis we faced, and €180 million may well be an under estimation of the damage done to the food island reputation. That can only be quantified as we move forward and look at the implications in the marketplace. There is plenty of evidence emerging at the moment of markets being closed and difficulties, even within the EU market, of markets being cancelled. It is incumbent on us to learn from these mistakes.

I am pleased to report to the House that the agriculture committee, under the chairmanship of Deputy Johnny Brady, met today and approved a very early detailed analysis of this incident. We will call as witnesses all the main players, including political figures and the administrative senior civil servants in the Departments involved. It is incumbent on us to learn from this. We must find €180 million in these financially stricter times, which I agree with, but it is important we do not repeat the mistakes.

In essence, the three factors standing out for me are the failure in traceability; the inspection regime in plants and the tests carried out; and the proportionality of the response. I listened to the Minister's defence of the response and I must take that in the context of all the scientific evidence subsequently available. I accept there are issues between people on the marketing and medical or scientific side. Sooner rather than later we must critically analyse all these issues and decisions and report back to the House. I am pleased to say this work is under way in the Oireachtas agriculture committee under the chairmanship of Deputy Johnny Brady.

I am appalled that we are coming here today looking for a Supplementary Estimate of €50 million on a single sheet of paper. There is no detail available to the House or outlined in the Minister's speech on the draw-down. As a guardian of the taxpayers' money, that is the only document I received, with a brief statement from the Whip's office, which stated, "The proposed expenditure relates to payments to processors, producers and renderers for the destruction of certain product and slaughter and destruction of animals, the rendering of product and animal carcasses and associated costs."

I have been around long enough to know that people have undoubtedly had losses. There is potential in this compensation fund for persons not to be adequately dealt with while others benefit disproportionately. I will approve the Supplementary Estimate but it is extraordinarily lax of the Minister and his Department to come in with a request that the House approve €50 million for 2008 with no detail of who the beneficiaries will be or the criteria under which this fund can be drawn down. It is slipshod work in the extreme. I am sorry to have burst the harmonious approach we have had on the issue but the material is extraordinarily bereft of any detail at a time when taxpayers deserve us to place the utmost scrutiny on how we spend their money. There is no detail in this single page, which requests €50 million.

I accept the time frame has been remarkably short and that officials in the Department and the Minister have been under considerable duress. I appreciate the urgency of getting funding to people affected. Notwithstanding any of that, it is extraordinary to ask this House to approve part of the overall sum required. I would like to hear the Minister in his response tell us more about the remaining balance. Is the total sum €180 million or €178 million? When will we see details on that?

We have done the budget for 2009 and there is no provision in the Department's Estimate for the balance of the fund. Where will it come from and who will fund it? Is there some other mechanism that the Department is not telling us about on funding? Were it not for the urgency and critical time scale involved for all, I would be inclined not to approve this Supplementary Estimate.

It is important to voice our concern that all who have innocently been injured by this debacle receive proportionate compensation. I am anxious, in particular, that the deal concluded in the Minister's Department between the main processors does not exclude secondary processors in the industry. The main players were in that room for many days but those locked outside are now most anxious that they receive their fair share of the compensation. I appreciate the reference in the Minister's speech to the issue that all primary and secondary processors would be compensated.

Will the Minister tell us more on the rendering process as we have not seen any lists of what is being charged to the State and where the product is to be rendered? What arrangements are being put in place? All that detail is necessary and if it becomes available before Thursday the Minister should lay the detail before the House before it rises for the Christmas recess. I appreciate that officials in the Department are working in a very difficult timeframe.

From my perspective, the most innocent victims are the individual pig producers who took feed in good faith. I will not stand in judgment on this issue until the Garda inquiries are concluded. The individual pig producers must be compensated and as I understand negotiations are ongoing I will not be prescriptive with regard to the outcome. If these people are to be out of business, it is reasonable to expect that those who put them out of business pay towards getting them back into business. It is reasonable that the losses should be compensated until the businesses are up and running, as they were put out of business by the State.

One of the biggest issues that must be addressed is the failure in traceability. This has been sold to farmers in all sectors on the basis that one could reach out and forensically recall contaminated product. We did not test it in beef and I am not sure we have the real answers as to why we did not. If we have the forensic capacity to recall contaminated animals or herds, why did we not do so and take the contaminated product off the market?

It does not work in the pig sector at all once pigs go inside the factory gate. We should either abandon all the investment we have made in traceability, or we should bring to heel the processors who up to now have not operated a clearly defined traceability system. If there is resistance to that it must be dealt with and it is incumbent on us to deal with it. My preferred solution is to continue with traceability while ensuring we have a system that works. We cannot tolerate a system whereby the industry dictates that it will not have traceability beyond the factory gate.

I appreciate the Minister is involved in a new marketing initiative with Bord Bia but that cannot be done on fresh air. It will require funding, so will that entail a further Supplementary Estimate in 2009? From press reports, I see that markets worth €30 million in China and Russia are closed to pork. In addition, the weanling cattle trade to Italy is in jeopardy, so I hope every effort is being made to secure it. We are also having difficulty in Poland, South Africa and other markets. This has been a nightmare scenario for the Irish food industry and particularly for the pork and bacon sector. We must learn from it and it is imperative that we remedy the defects that have so expensively exposed the taxpayer. I look forward to hearing more details from the Minister on this matter.

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