Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)

I compliment Senator Donohoe on his excellent work and all the Members who attended the sub-committee — Deputies Costello, Dooley and Creighton are present — who put in many long hours and did much hard work. I acknowledge, in particular, the commitment shown by Deputy Costello. Many attended the sub-committee, including representatives of the Institute of European Affairs who put in a tremendous amount of work and made very good submissions. I am sure people will not mind if I single out Dr. Gavin Barrett who attended two or three times. They made a major commitment which went beyond the call of duty.

A couple of clear messages came through from the sub-committee, one of which was that our interests actually had been damaged in the European Union. There was an overwhelming view that we should remain at the heart of the Union and the covert message coming through was that to do so we should ratify the Lisbon treaty. We heard all the evidence and if we were a jury, there would be no contest. There would be no doubt as to the direction we should take, notwithstanding the fact that such a recommendation was not part of the sub-committee's terms of reference. However, it is important not to lull ourselves into a false sense of security. That is the danger we face. The evidence is overwhelming. One could say to oneself that there is only one possible course of action. One could think that surely it is what the people want and that is what they will do. We have thought that in the past and been wrong; we could be wrong in the future.

I have doubts about the research. A total of 800,000 people voted "No". Traditionally, in European referendums in Ireland around 500,000 people have voted "No" and always for the same reasons. Some of them are against the concept of the European Union, while a certain percentage base their "No" vote on concerns about abortion, neutrality and so on. I do not think we will ever reassure the people concerned. However, I am concerned about the 300,000 additional "No" voters and those who did not come out to vote. They are the people to whom we need to address our message. What were the reasons they voted "No"?

That is the reason Fine Gael made separate proposals from those made in the report and Deputy Kenny has outlined them to the House. They were not intended as a means of raising the bar or to create difficulties; rather Fine Gael believes wider concerns other than those issues dealt with in the Lisbon treaty must be addressed. I refer to the issues outlined by the Taoiseach and the Minister for Foreign Affairs. With the exception of the Commissioner issue, taxation, neutrality and ethical issues are all catered for in the treaty. We understand this to be the case. We are looking for confirmation, to be sure to be sure. The only matter at issue is that of Commissioner. We believe other issues can be addressed on the domestic front. It is not satisfactory just to try to put in place a measure to jump the Lisbon treaty fence, ratify the treaty and move on. That would be a grave error.

There is widespread concern that the Constitution is being slowly eaten away. People are suspicious of the European Union. I do not share this sentiment but reasonable people are suspicious. They are of the view that there is no one there to look after their interests. Fine Gael proposes the taking of a constitutional position which would be the equivalent of a watchdog, an ombudsman or information officer. We do not believe the resources required for such a post would be significant, particularly as Fine Gael is advocating public sector reform. We believe it could be done, irrespective of the Lisbon treaty. I urge the Government to consider this proposal with some others. I am confident that if it does not do this, it will be part of Fine Gael policy for the European elections and the next general election.

The other issues concern enhanced powers for the Joint Committee on European Scrutiny which would cost virtually nothing. The Oireachtas committee system has to be revamped. We need to slash the number of committees in half. There are 25 Oireachtas committees, which is crazy. I will send the Government a brief on this proposal if it wishes. The resulting secretariat resources could be given to the Joint Committee on European Scrutiny which has a very important role.

It would require a constitutional referendum for the Government to refer a treaty to the Supreme Court which is always the final arbiter on whether a constitutional referendum is required. This would apply to future treaties in order that we would know with certainty whether a section might require a constitutional referendum. In our view the full treaty should be put to a referendum but we need clarity. At the moment we have people starting with Article 48 and ending up on workers' rights. They will jump 1,000 places in between to try to create confusion.

With regard to engagement, Deputy Kenny proposed that the Taoiseach and the Minister for Foreign Affairs sit down with him to brief him on the Government's plans. Fine Gael would be very supportive of any positive measure to ensure we stay at the heart of the European Union.

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