Jack Wall (Kildare South, Labour)

I move amendment No. 17:

In page 9, to delete lines 36 to 42 and in page 10, to delete lines 1 to 42.

This amendment was brought on foot of submissions and our own experience of the mortgage interest supplement. I am sure every Deputy received submissions from FLAC and other housing organisations. One of the points made by FLAC is that the changes in the Bill will further restrict access to the mortgage interest supplement by reducing the duration of the payment and excluding specific mortgages from support by inserting new definitions of mortgage interest. Increased administrative powers will be delegated to the HSE. Unless a new mechanism is set up to deal with it, the present arrangement will result in the community welfare officers being overcome with work. In that situation I do not see how any further workload can be added.

As I stated on the previous amendment, the existing legislation is sufficient with regard to the qualification aspect of a person for mortgage interest relief. If the timing is to be decreased or some specific mortgages are to be excluded, we would defeat the purpose of payments from the Department of Social and Family Affairs. I am sure that is not the intention. The Minister has outlined the projected figures for November, December and January and these indicate mortgage interest relief is on the increase.

If it is the case we will now see restrictions put in place in the present application, it seems we will increase the pressure on the unfortunate person who must look for this payment. Our worst days as public representatives are probably when we see someone who cannot pay his or her mortgage or get agreement with the lending agency. These people may have gone to the Money Advice and Budgeting Service which is a great organisation that has done tremendous work in helping so many in this position, but they may not reach an agreement there either.

If we are to increase the pressure on these people by decreasing the ability of a person to make an application, we are surely creating a case that will cause major concern to the family unit. Deputy Kathleen Lynch has mentioned cases where some people are trying to buy out a portion of a mortgage from a partner or former partner where there has been a breakdown. In this instance, if both parties are suddenly unemployed and restrictions have been increased in the application for mortgage supplement, havoc will be created.

I do not see a need for this. I have seen instances where the community welfare officer insists that the original loan application be the base of negotiations but this will create difficulty in the current economic climate, unless the Government provides a measure for mortgage protection in the next year or two. Families may be now subjected to further tension and problems in the making of an application in this regard. That is why our spokesperson, Deputy Róisín Shortall, felt the whole section should be deleted, as the current position is good enough. The mechanism is available and the process has been put through scrutiny in the last number of months because of increased numbers.

I do not see the need to make changes as the mechanism exists and community welfare officers, to my knowledge, use it to maximum effect with regard to qualification for mortgage interest relief. I ask the Minister to consider accepting the amendment and leaving the matter as it is. In fairness to the Minister, she has indicated she is willing to consider the issue going forward in order to ensure all the problems will be considered. There are many problems, including family and partnership break-ups and people trying to buy out portions of mortgages. These problems are all related to the family being under sustained pressure while trying to own its home.

The one light at the end of the tunnel is that we have seen recent decreases in interest rates, which has been a major help for some people trying to address this problem. I can see no logic in changing the framework to make it more difficult to obtain a mortgage or rent subsidy payment.

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