Seán Fleming (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)

I welcome the opportunity to speak on Second Stage of the Finance Bill. I acknowledge the important steps taken by the Minister in bringing forward the budget at an earlier date this year and thereby ensuring the Finance Bill will be debated in the cool light of day at this time of the year. The budget is usually announced in early December and we would all go away and forget about it and then some time in February it would be debated in the House which is well into the new financial year. It is very good practice that the Finance Bill is being discussed and that all Stages will be discussed in the House and then it will go to the Seanad early in the new year. It is good from a taxation point of view to know the shape of the Finance Bill and the Government's economic programme for the year ahead before the end of the year rather than in February or March and sometimes near St. Patrick's day or at the end of March. It is good practice to have the debate early and to have the Estimates published on the same day as the budget. I am a former chairman of the Joint Committee on Finance and the Public Service and I spoke about this on several occasions. It did not make great sense for an organisation to announce its plans and economic activities for the coming year in two halves — what it planned to spend and then three weeks later announcing in the budget how it would raise the income. No commercial organisation could conduct its business activities in this manner and I am very pleased to see that both have been combined. This means a certain amount of information overload during that week and some of the details do not receive media coverage because of the amount of information. This is the first year that the Estimates have appeared with the budget but people will be more aware next year and media commentators and Members will be able to adequately sift through both documents and so ensure a proper debate on taxation measures and expenditure measures. There will be a couple of weeks of debate each year from now on and this is to be welcomed.

A couple of hours ago the House voted on the matter of referring Supplementary Estimates to the relevant committees. Some Members were of the view that the debate should be taken in the House. This was one of the most hollow and shallow reasons for calling a vote in the House that I have ever seen. Last year, Deputy Rabbitte produced a report on the amount of time the Oireachtas committees devote to considering the Estimates including the Supplementary Estimates. The committees should be going through the detail with respect to the Departments. They gave an hour or an hour and ten minutes to the discussion of the expenditure of billions of euro. It is only proper that not only should these matters be referred to the committees but I would like to see full engagement at the committees and a proper debate and a teasing out of each Department's Estimate and Supplementary Estimate. I would support a detailed discussion and I would like to see Members more genuinely engaging in the Estimates debate rather than just calling for a vote in the House as to whether it should take place in the Chamber or in committee.

There has been a severe change in economic conditions in the past year. This time last year even the most pessimistic commentator did not predict what was before us in 2008 and what will be ahead of us in 2009. What is happening in Ireland is not unique and it is exacerbated by the international financial difficulties. This is a worldwide happening and every part of the globe is affected. It is important to recognise that we can take those steps in our control to influence economic developments in Ireland. This will help ensure Ireland is in a good economic position next year and in the years ahead. It must be recognised that Ireland is a small country in the eurozone, a small player in the international community and can only have a small influence on international economic activities. Instead, some people would have us believe that every matter from the price of oil to the international financial sector crisis is the fault of the Taoiseach, Deputy Brian Cowen, or the Minister for Finance, Deputy Brian Lenihan.

I have attended several public meetings with farmers and teachers in the Laois-Offaly constituency since the Budget Statement. I have found the public knows the economic reality. The debate in this House, however, is far removed from the reality of which the people are aware. Blame is thrown across the floor of the House every day but it is not washing. Someone told me that a child of 14 years understands there is an economic recession. The public is aware adjustments need to be made. Last night, I met with 30 young farmers who understand the economic situation has changed utterly. They have seen some of their colleagues lose their jobs in the construction industry and have had to revert to farming as a safe haven. While the Government cannot prevent a change in the economic tide, we can manage what is under our control effectively.

I was intrigued by some of Deputy Joan Burton's earlier comments on the public service. She seems to have a problem with democratically elected politicians and Ministers having an involvement with the public service. Is it a crime for a Minister to launch a report or attend a public event hosted by a Department or State agency?

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