Jan O'Sullivan (Limerick East, Labour)

I welcome the Minister's acknowledgement that she has established a dysfunctional organisation, comprising an amalgamation of a large number of separate entities, with a layer of management at the top. It is clearly not working and was not set up properly in the first place. I welcome the Minister's recognition in this regard and her acceptance that nobody could possibly have run it in a way that would work well for the public. Given that more than €14 billion of public money, along with the lives and health of our citizens, are in the hands of this organisation, one must question why it was set up in this way in the first place.

I have several questions for the Minister in the context of the announced changes. We have heard much jargon from her without any clarity in regard to what is envisaged to be done. Does the Minister intend specifically to take out layers of management grades, including some of the 800 staff members above grade eight? One could count on two hands the number of staff at that level before the HSE was established. What types of numbers are envisaged in terms of those who will be offered voluntary redundancy? Is the redundancy programme targeted specifically at the management layers as opposed to those who are taking people's names in clinics? When can we expect these changes to happen?

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