Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)

I well believe that. I expect the Minister of State gets folders. I understand why Members might not wish to be on the committee or would run away from it because there is not a direct link to how it is important to constituents. I have learned that the committee does unbelievable work and it is important. One learns about what is coming down the line and one has a chance to work with Ministers and public bodies on the issues. One has a chance to influence things and point out potential problems. If the Lisbon treaty was introduced we would have more of an opportunity to do that, but as things stand it is possible to do something.

Committee members must highlight the work we do to other Members of the House so they realise it is worth getting involved in European Union legislation, to keep an eye on it and to have a say on it. During the campaign on the Lisbon treaty it was apparent that the majority of people do not realise that we scrutinise EU legislation. They believe it is forced on us by Europe. They do not know our Ministers are involved in drawing it up, and that it is agreed to at Commission level and in the Oireachtas also. There is a poor perception about how Dáil Éireann handles EU legislation. It is only through the work of the Joint Committee on European Scrutiny, the Joint Committee on European Affairs, the Sub-Committee on the Future of the European Union, and the debate we are having today and once a month from now on, that we might get through to the public that Europe does not lecture us or tell us what to do but that we have a major say in what happens in Europe. We have a role and we can debate matters and try to change them if we wish. We should let people know we are keeping an eye on what is going on and scrutinising proposed legislation from Europe.

The Minister of State might agree with the view that emerged from a committee discussion that part of the fault for the public's ignorance lies with the Government and previous Governments that did not focus on the benefits of Europe but used it as a convenient scapegoat when unpopular measures were required. Likewise, at council level the blame is attributed to the national Government and An Bord Pleanála gets the blame for planning issues. It suits the body politic and officials to pass the buck when a tough decision is required. We have a duty to tell people we have a say when it comes to decisions from Europe and that we can make changes.

The committee has to deal with in excess of 500 legislative measures a year. As the report outlines, in the first six months of 2008 we dealt with 274 items. That is indicative of the amount of work that goes on in Europe and the number of directives that are enacted, which have a serious impact on people's lives. It is unfortunate that the effects of some measures that are debated this year might not be felt until 2010 or even 2012. For that reason it is difficult to explain the cause and effect to people. It is a bit like a criminal committing a crime today but not getting punished for three years. That does not work and it is not proper justice. The same is true of EU legislation. That is one reason fewer people understand the process or get involved in it. I include fellow Members in that regard. I hope we can do more to address that.

Part of the job of the committee is to recommend change with a view to increasing interest in Europe. No doubt the Acting Chairman, Deputy Wall, will want to join us at next week's meeting. We are trying to encourage people to get involved and part of the process is a discussion of the issues in plenary session. I urge members of other committees to go through legislation that we send them. I have attended other committee meetings and when the information arrives from the Joint Committee on European Scrutiny it does not always get the scrutiny it deserves and very often gets left to one side. That day is gone. People elect us and they expect us to do a proper job and to fully scrutinise everything. No doubt the Chairman of my committee has communicated to other committee Chairs that if they do not wish to scrutinise particular measures they should send it back for us to do it. Even though we are busy, we would prefer that rather than allow an issue to be signed off without proper scrutiny. That is not much use to the system and people expect more.

I hope that when we next debate the Lisbon treaty more attention will be devoted to the work of the Joint Committee on European Scrutiny, and how its powers will be greatly improved if the Lisbon treaty is passed. Opposition Members would also have a greater say in how Europe works, yet the majority of those who were opposed to the Lisbon treaty claimed it was undemocratic and was taking powers away from us. The direct opposite was the case. Currently, my only hope for having a say in Europe is to influence Ministers through the reports of the committee, whereas if the Lisbon treaty is passed we would have a greater chance of doing that with the yellow, orange and red card system. We have to sell that point. It was only towards the end of the Lisbon debate that we managed to have a good discussion at our committee, for which we got some publicity. An opportunity was missed and that was a contributory factor to why the referendum was not passed. People were not convinced about the work we do and how well it is done. We must change that perception.

The report includes 16 or 18 scrutiny reports. Last year we drew up reports on food directives and organic food, which are most interesting. The delegations that came before the committee were happy they got to have a say. When we discussed airport charges we had delegations from Ryanair, Aer Arann, Aer Lingus and Aer Rianta. In the food area we had Taste Ireland and many other groups. Without the Joint Committee on European Scrutiny those groups would not feel empowered to influence legislation coming from Europe.

Many regulations and directives can have a serious impact on businesses in this country, which can affect jobs in the long run. The majority of directives appear to be practical and based on common sense. Previously, European legislation was somewhat harsh on small businesses, which put them under pressure. I foresee changes that recognise smaller companies need leeway when it comes to red tape. I welcome the commitment to reduce red tape in the European Union by up to 25% by 2012. We already see the impact of that coming through the committee in terms of proposed legislation and that is to be welcomed. We need to talk about that, praise it, and make it known to the public.

I am disappointed with the lack of interest in Europe among colleagues. We must encourage people in general to take a greater interest in Europe. We cannot expect them to dissect a referendum every couple of years and get their heads around how Europe works in two or three weeks. Europe has a complicated structure with various bodies such as the Commission and the Parliament. People are required to take on board a lot of information once every five years. We must have an ongoing process and discussion must take place so people learn about Europe. Perhaps we can do that through libraries, post offices or some other way to reach communities. We should have a European office that deals with how Europe works because people want to know.

In carrying on that debate we will probably have to educate people about our own political system, both local government and national government. People do not know about it. Most young people at school are lucky, whether they realise it or not, because they get an opportunity to learn about the political system and how it works. They are very well informed. I received no education about the political system at school. I had one teacher who was personally interested in politics and that probably had an influence on me but there was no structure in place. That is why I am here.

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