Seán Barrett (Dún Laoghaire, Fine Gael)

I support the Minister's amendment in relation to these activities involving the collection of clothes etc. We are very fortunate to have people in our community who give their time voluntarily working in cancer support shops and other places without reward and who collect clothes from households and so on. Anybody who is doing things that damage such charities needs to be put off the road — and I mean put off the road. I hope the penalties involved in this will be sufficient to make certain that it becomes less attractive for people to break the law as a result of the passing of this legislation.

We have spent a great deal of money over the years trying to deal with the Traveller problem, getting children off the street. In the middle of winter in the 1970s and 1980s one saw unfortunate little children sitting beside their mothers on the street. We spent a fortune and got to the stage where that does not happen in that community, by and large, any more. However, it has been replaced, unfortunately, by some ethnic groups which are involved in these scams. What annoys me most is that in some instances, not alone do they have children delivering notices about a collection the following Friday, but they have their unfortunate wives sitting on cold streets with babies collecting money without any sign or light of the male members of the family. These women are dropped at different locations early in the morning and picked up in the afternoon. The same people are involved in these scams and I am very pleased the Minister is at long last doing something about this.

It should be a message that this society, through the supplementary welfare allowance scheme, deals with people who do not qualify for benefits, where there is a need to support children and feed them. That system is still in place despite our difficulties and that is why the health authorities, through the HSE, have officers to help people in need of assistance. One sees young children being used to deliver these leaflets and their younger siblings sitting beside the mothers in the middle of winter, freezing cold, and not a sign of the fathers in all of this. They are the people organising the scams in particular, so I am very pleased to see this amendment. It will do so much to encourage more volunteers into these genuine charitable shops such as those of the Irish Cancer Society, Oxfam, UNICEF and many others. We are only too pleased to support these organisations which do tremendous work on a voluntary basis.

I am very sorry the Minister of State has not supported my colleague, Deputy Ring's amendment. This is another situation that needs to be sorted out and here is an opportunity to do this. We will not get an item of legislation again that can deal with this issue. The fact that Deputy Ring tabled the amendment — I have been lobbied as well — shows there is great concern in the community about this issue. It is not going to cost anybody any money. This is only going to ensure that genuine people who pay their money to have masses said whether for an anniversary, the death of a close relative, a friend or whatever are guaranteed the money they pass over will ensure the masses are said. This reflects the Roman Catholic community. I appreciate that is the only community which is involved in this, but it is important. I am a member of the Roman Catholic community and like to see a mass card being handed to a relative in an hour of need. It is great comfort to people.

To think that people have got to the stage of selling these in shops and garages and handing them out with €15 of petrol is horrifying. It is totally disrespectful to the whole concept of a mass being said for a deceased person. I suggest to the Minister of State that there is an easier way to solve this problem. One should not be allowed to purchase a mass card from anybody other than a priest who would sign it in ink, or from a church or an office attached it. If I go into Clarendon Street church, for example, there is an office there and I know that if I purchase a mass card the community there will say the mass. This is equally true of the Holy Ghost fathers, for example. An amendment can be framed which will solve this problem. It will not make it inconvenient for people to purchase a mass card. It is not too difficult to either go to a church where there is an office or else the mass card should be signed in ink by a priest. If it is stamped in an office attached to a church, that is for convenience, but one knows the mass will be said. God help us all, however, if we go as far as the selling of mass cards as a commercial operation. I appeal to the Minister of State, even at this late stage, if he has to go back to the Seanad with the legislation, to consider drafting an amendment such as the one put forward by Deputy Ring. I have put forward my ideas, which I believe are workable. We should deal with the issue once and for all now that we have the opportunity through this legislation. It would be a shame to lose this opportunity.

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