Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)

I welcome the opportunity to contribute to the debate on this important Bill, which will bring about a number of changes. I wish to focus on advertising relating to religious orders, churches etc. This matter has been touched upon by previous speakers but I wish to comment on it in detail. The Bill represents an opportunity for the Minister to deal with this matter once and for all.

Deputy Doyle and others referred to the importance of broadcasting, the media and so forth. As politicians, we often miss out and do not get to watch enough television or keep up to date with the various programmes that are shown. We are often out of touch with what is happening. Television is an education because there is so much on it. When I was on holidays with a few friends they were chatting about different television programmes. I was out of the conversation because I did not know what was going on. One of my friends told me to go away for a week and watch television and come back and we would have a conversation. That is how important it is. They were all talking about television and I could not join in because we do not get to watch enough of it here. That can be good, but we miss out on certain educational programmes. There is a lot on television, not only on radio and in the newspapers. It is important to monitor and keep a close eye on the whole area.

This Bill also deals with the independence and licensing of local radio stations and will help speed up the process of re-licensing in respect of which there were lengthy delays for some stations. Politicians, particularly those from rural or semi-rural areas, know perhaps more than anybody else the importance of local radio stations. The service they provide, often on low budgets, is unbelievable, although some of them have been sold for high prices lately. The staff are not paid the top wages they might get elsewhere but they provide an excellent service reporting on a wide range of subjects including sports, community events, politics, deaths and so on. All areas are covered and it is an excellent service to the community at a time when life is so fast-moving and we spend so much time in our cars that radio is probably the best way we have of keeping in touch with local events and what is going on around us. The real benefit of local radio is in keeping the community spirit alive. The radio station in my area is LMFM. Shannonside also covers part of my area. Along with many others they do an excellent job. Ministers and Deputies get to speak on many different local radio stations which are to be commended, protected and encouraged.

In the debate over the past couple of days we have discussed the issue of Dáil TV. I am a member of the committee which has been discussing that with the Minister for Communications, Energy and Natural Resources, Deputy Eamon Ryan, who has done much work in this area and is very genuine about it and wants it to work. There is merit in the idea. We should examine what is happening in other countries. Our near neighbour televises its Parliament on a regular basis in an interesting way. That is a standard to which we should aspire. Perhaps when we go digital in 2012 or 2013 Dáil TV can be part of the changeover.

In the meantime we must work with our national stations, TV3, RTE and so on, to try to produce a different type of political programme that might be more interesting. People are interested in politics. It is part of their everyday lives. It must, however, be presented in an interesting way that will keep them awake. Putting a programme on at midnight in a not very exciting format will not keep people's interest. They will not stay up to watch a 40 minute programme, which itself gives a good summary of what happens here, when they must get up at 5.30 a.m. or 6.30 a.m. to drive for hours in traffic. Midnight is too late. I do not understand why broadcasters do that. Perhaps they do not realise just how interested people are in politics. It is not just that politicians believe people are interested in them. People are genuinely interested in politics. The proof of this is shown by the fact that when we go down the country every year for our party meeting to discuss various issues, telephone calls to my office drop by approximately 80%. People know we are away because they are tuned in, listening to various programmes. Likewise when we were cooped up here for a couple of days discussing the economic situation and the new regulations for banks, telephone calls to my office dropped by nearly 90%. Again people knew we were busy. They knew that because they were following events on radio, television and the media. They are interested in following what is going on. However, it must be presented succinctly, in a way they can absorb it, and at a suitable time. We should work on that over the next couple of years before we commit to spending a massive amount of money on Dáil TV. When I say a massive amount of money, the figure is probably not that high. It is approximately €1 million, not as high as one might expect, because much good work was done to try to get a good price. We should examine the issue over a couple of years and try to address it through getting good programmes. The debate between the American Presidential candidates was a good example of such programming. People seem to like interactive programmes such as "Questions and Answers" with somebody guiding the debate. The Minister is considering that approach in regard to Dáil TV but we must work with existing television programmes at the moment.

I will turn to advertising. I want to deal mainly with what has happened here over the past couple of years in the context of religion. I do not believe it is what people wanted to happen. In 1999 The Irish Catholic newspaper had an advertisement banned from the airwaves for stating that it connects the teaching of the Church with the issues of the day. It did not state what those teachings were or whether they were good, bad or indifferent. In 2000 there was legislation that was meant to address the issue. It was simply a statement of what The Irish Catholic does and what anyone would expect a newspaper of this sort to do.

As a result of that ban the Oireachtas, partly at the behest of Deputy Enda Kenny, amended the broadcasting legislation to permit the advertising of religious publications or the holding of religious events. However, the amendment did not work as intended because in 2002 The Irish Catholic had another advertisement banned, this time for mentioning a feature series entitled "The Good the Church Does". It was about the work of organisations such as Crosscare, a Dublin diocesan welfare agency. Ireland is among the most restrictive regimes in the Western world with regard to religious advertising whereas in the US there is a free-for-all. Even in secular-minded Britain the legal environment in which religious advertisers operate is more liberal and more reasonable than it is here. Northern Ireland is governed by UK legislation in this regard. In 2003 our regulator saw fit to ban an advertisement from an interdenominational group called Power to Change. It was about the power of Jesus to change one's life. The message was overtly religious but UTV allowed it to air while we did not.

Our legislation and the way in which it is interpreted by organisations such as the Broadcasting Complaints Commission are to blame for this state of affairs. The legislation is too strict and is made worse by being interpreted too strictly. For evidence of this we should note that the legislation prevents both advertisements directed towards a religious end and advertisements directed towards a political end. I will return shortly to the issue of advertisements directed towards a political end. The ban on advertisements directed towards a political end is not used by the BCC to prevent secular newspapers from advertising either their sale or their content, and this content is often highly political. Why this double standard? One reason may be that we have become unduly suspicious of religion, regarding it as a likely cause of sectarianism and division. Politics can also be divisive, but we do not seem to regard it with the same suspicion. Is there a prejudice at work here. Is this why we strictly interpret legislation with regard to religious publications but not with regard to publications with religious content. Perhaps the attitude of suspicion which we bring to religion stems partly from the history of Northern Ireland which, of course, has been scarred by sectarianism. If that is so, why did the Northern Ireland authorities permit the Power to Change advertisements and we did not? They would have reason to be much more sensitive in these matters than us and yet they were more liberal and more reasonable in this regard than we were. It is worth stressing again that the advertisement for the Power to Change was much more overtly religious than either of the advertisements from The Irish Catholic which were banned, yet UTV allowed it to air.

It seems we have attached an unreasonable fear to the matter of religious advertising in Ireland. We seem to believe that if we allow one religious advertisement to air, no matter how innocent, we will have opened Pandora's box wide and will have to allow much more harmful advertisements on air. This is why the recent Veritas advertisements for Holy Communion gifts such as rosary beads were banned even though their offence was simply to describe those gifts as spiritual gifts and to refer people to the Veritas website, which mentions the Catholic hierarchy.

The attitude of some people, including the Minister, seems to be that there is a straight line from this kind of advertisement to advertisements by cults and religious fanatics. We seem not to have the same fear in that regard to secular newspapers advertising their contents. No one suggests that if we allow one of our recognised mainstream newspapers to advertise its political content, which we do, we will then be faced with advertisements for neo-Nazi publications. The Minister needs to ease the extreme restrictions on advertising. The fears that seem to motivate our current approach are unrealistic. It is certainly unfair to ban mainstream organisations and publications from the airwaves out of fear of extremists gaining access to the airwaves as a result. This draconian approach, which is not based on experience, means too many perfectly respectable organisations, which are and have been part of the fabric of our society for a very long time, are being hurt unnecessarily. In the case of Veritas and The Irish Catholic, this almost amounts to a restraint on trade. They are not given the same chance as everyone else to sell their wares. It is reasonable to ask the Minister to ease the current restrictions on broadcasting religious advertisements. If extremists thereby gain access to the airwaves, the legislation can be revisited. This would be an innocent until proven guilty approach, as distinct from the current guilty until proven innocent attitude. The Minister needs to set aside the unreasonable fears that motivate this attitude and give religious organisations the same freedom we offer other organisations.

This is an open and multicultural country and we need to allow space for diverse religious beliefs. We cannot control or fear everything. Other speakers referred to Christmas and cribs. We are taking a step too far. Advertising merely gives people the opportunity to make choices. Nothing is being forced on them. We need to grow up and deal with this multicultural and religiously diverse environment like mature adults. We should be proud of our backgrounds but draconian legislative measures can spoil that by fostering resentment. As legislators, we have a duty to make this grey area more straightforward.

It is a shame that we do not allow more extensive political advertising on television broadcasts because this could increase people's interest in politics. Last Christmas, I spent some time in America, where I saw a wide variety of fun and interesting political broadcasts. Some people might believe everything they see but that applies in respect of all advertising. On Committee Stage we might discuss the possibility of opening up our rules on political advertising. I am aware of the danger that people with money might take over but, as modern politicians, that is a risk we have to take. Libertas spent a lot of money on the Lisbon referendum but we could also have availed of broadcasting opportunities. It was difficult to get our points across on the treaty. The best way of disseminating information would have been by means of radio and television rather than the print media. With the exception of one or two programmes each week, we were unable to get our message across.

Changes in this regard would not necessarily result in an increase in party politics because we could also educate people on politics in general. We often assume that people know how political processes work but many of us here did not have a clue about political issues at local, national or European level before we got involved in politics. I used to think councillors were paper figures because I was not involved in local politics before running for office. I did not study local governance in school, although that subject is now touched upon. Many people who came through our educational system never had an opportunity to learn about local, national or European politics. We have a duty to give them such an opportunity. If we give them the information they need, they will be better able to engage with politicians of all parties. They need to learn why certain decisions are made because we often appear to decide incorrectly. If people understood the system, however, they would better understand our decisions.

I wish to speak about programming aimed at children and, specifically, advertisements for junk food and alcohol. Those involved in the drinks industry have begun to work with the Government on bringing change to this area but problems remain. I acknowledge that we can only control stations broadcasting from Ireland and cannot deal with Sky or other stations. The simplest way to address this issue would be to advertise the dangers of alcohol as a counterbalance to pushing how wonderful it is or the nights out that can be had. An equal amount of money should be spent on showing both negative and positive effects. I am aware that the drinks industry pays a small levy into a fund which deals with alcohol problems. This may represent a quick way to deal with the issue rather than introducing complicated legislation which might be difficult to monitor.

I support the provisions for addressing the issue of junk food. We should use the media to reach out to parents, who need help and advice on raising children. It is difficult to do everything right by children in today's climate, whether in terms of food, drugs or alcohol, and the Government's help is needed. A number of programmes currently broadcast deal with parenting, including one I watched this morning which offered advice from a parenting coach. These programmes are useful and perhaps we need more of them. Rather than trying to control advertisements, we should have a say in the dissemination of positive information that helps parents to raise children. We cannot and should not force parenting courses upon them. Many schools and communities offer such courses and the television offers similar opportunities in regard to eating and drugs. We could use Irish made programmes to reach out to parents and, through cartoons, to children.

I welcome the provision for a dedicated film channel. Over the past several years, a number of excellent films have been produced with the support of the Irish Film Board. Many of these were made with low budgets and deal with serious issues such as racism, drugs, illness and disabilities. They have touched raw nerves. They do not reach the audience they deserve, however, so I look forward to the establishment of this channel. Films present further opportunities for disseminating messages. I accept that films and programmes are made that do not give good messages but it is a matter of choice. We should do everything we can to encourage our film industry.

I welcome the many positive measures contained in this Bill. However, we need to expand broadcasting in order to educate people and to develop the systems which Government and Opposition politicians and parents want. Let us take advantage of this opportunity. I encourage all those who are involved in the media to take the next step. From speaking to people on the doorsteps, we get a good feeling for what they want and need. Programming does not have to be flashy or colourful to be of good quality.

See this speech in context