Leo Varadkar (Dublin West, Fine Gael)

Public sector pay does not lag way behind private sector pay. Numerous studies carried out by people who know more about this than the Taoiseach or I show that this is not the case. This is one of the erroneous arguments that has crept into the Government for some reason.

We can agree to disagree on that but I do not understand why the Taoiseach does not use the opportunity of these massive pay rises to shoehorn real concessions and reform from the people who stand to benefit. I do not understand why he is simply saying that we will defer it to 2010 when the economy will, hopefully, go back into growth, there will be enough money and we can go back to the way things were. Why does he not use it as an opportunity to say that these pay increases will not be paid unless we get real reform and concessions from the people concerned, for example, longer sittings and working hours for judges? The only opportunity the Government has to shoehorn reform is pay yet it is not prepared to use it. I do not understand that.

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