Dermot Ahern (Louth, Fianna Fail)

I thank all speakers for their contributions and words of advice. In the context of Deputy Creed's comments and those of other Deputies on browsing in the purchasing of a bottle of wine, I indicated earlier on Second Stage that I was prepared to bring forward an amendment on Committee Stage to exempt wine sales from the structural separation requirements because it is a drink that is purchased after browsing.

On the matter of staggered closing hours, I have heard the arguments and there is strong lobbying by night club owners on the disgorging of large numbers of people onto the streets at the same time. In practice — I said as much to those I met — is it not the case that if one has staggered closing hours, people will leave the bar with normal opening hours, go to the late bar with a special exemption order and perhaps even go on to the nightclub? Such persons will move from one place to the next. That would defeat the purpose in having staggered closing hours.

I read a report issued recently from the UK Local Government Association which examined the effects of the extension of drinking hours introduced in November 2005 in the United Kingdom. The report stated the Ministers who had promoted the legislation wanted to promote what was called a café culture in an effort to reduce the level of disorder following the calling of "last orders" when everyone emerged out onto the streets at closing time. The survey suggested that nearly one third of primary care trusts had reported an increase in the number of alcohol related incidents. Half of the police authorities had reported that the Act had merely resulted in incidents occurring later in the night. More than two thirds of health authorities believed they had to spend more as a result of alcohol related admissions in accident and emergency units.

Sir Simon Milton, chairman of the Local Government Association, said the new drink laws had had no impact whatsoever on reducing the alcohol related violence that blighted towns and turned them into no-go areas on a Friday and Saturday night. The then Minister with responsibility for culture, Ms Tessa Jowell, said the reason they had moved to more flexible licensing hours was all the evidence that crime and disorder were at their peak at chucking-out time. Apparently, the report is now indicating the opposite is the case some two years after implementation. From what I have seen of it, the UK Department of Culture, Media and Sports states there is other research which suggests the overall figures for alcohol consumption are down. I do not believe, therefore, that there is an easy solution to this matter.

I wish to be fair to all concerned and level the playing field as much as possible. The response by the British Government to a report was to say the legislation was not going to be a silver bullet to solve alcohol and public disorder problems. Similarly, I am not holding out this legislation as the panacea for all the ills.

I have said it is a very small attempt, particularly in the context of asking that it be passed before the summer in order to give the Garda the powers in this Bill relating to public order. It will equip gardaí properly before the summer starts with a vengeance, weather-wise, and give them the power to apprehend people who have alcohol in cases where there is public disorder.

I have already indicated that there will be a comprehensive sale of alcohol Bill later this year, which will provide the opportunity for a more thorough and comprehensive discussion of the role of alcohol in our society. This Bill will modernise and streamline all the licensing laws by repealing the Licensing Acts 1833 to 2004 and replacing them, in effect, with one consolidated and updated statute.

As I mentioned here last week, research published by the Health Research Board indicates that alcohol consumption in Ireland increased by 17% between 1995 and 2006, with binge drinking a particular problem. The resulting public disorder and health-related harm cannot be ignored or tolerated and although I accept the point made by several Deputies that a change of culture regarding alcohol is required, the Government has a responsibility to ensure licensing law and public order legislation are sufficiently robust to address these problems. That is the purpose of the Bill before us.

With regard to wine off-licences, section 5 provides that the new requirement to obtain a District Court certificate will only apply to new applications made after the entry into force of this legislation. The same applies to the new grounds for objection set out in section 6. In short, existing wine off-licences are not affected by the proposed change.

As regards renewal of wine off-licences, the existing position under the Intoxicating Liquor Act 2000 is that an objection may be made to such renewal. Where such an objection is made, a District Court certificate is required before the Revenue Commissioners will issue a renewal. That is the position under existing law and it will not change under this Bill.

The question of whether a temporary closure order applies to the entire premises or a part of the premises only was also raised in contributions. Under existing law, the District Court may make an order for the closure of the premises or any part thereof. The extent and duration of closure orders are, therefore, matters for the court to determine and the only change proposed in this Bill is that the minimum closure period will in future be two days. We came across a number of instances where temporary closure orders were made for a matter of a few hours, which is not acceptable.

I referred to the staggering of closing times, which was mentioned in several contributions. The position is that this Bill contains no proposals to change rules covering the duration of special exemption orders. It will remain the case that special exemption orders expire at 2.30 a.m., or 1 a.m. on Sunday night and Monday morning. The Government alcohol advisory group had recommended that 2.30 a.m. be brought forward to 2 a.m. but this was not accepted by the Government.

Recently late-night venues, including some nightclubs and late bars, have sought to exploit a loophole which has opened up as a result of a High Court decision on theatre licences last year. The result has been a proliferation of theatre licences and a resulting circumvention of the special exemption order provisions. It is also resulting in a significant loss of revenue to the Exchequer. The proposals in the Bill will mean this loophole, which is being unfairly exploited by some operators, will be closed and this will restore fair competition between all late night venues.

As regards test purchasing, I note the comments made by some speakers even today. I intend to table an amendment on Committee Stage which will provide that test purchasing be carried out in accordance with procedures set out in guidelines which will be drawn up following consultation with the Garda Commissioner and the Minister for Health and Children.

Regarding structural separation, I repeat what I said earlier in order to avoid any misunderstandings. During discussions with organisations representing supermarkets and convenience stores two weeks ago, the bodies concerned offered to implement an agreed code of practice as an alternative to implementation of the section 8 provisions. The code would cover issues such as the location and display of alcohol within premises, signage, warning signs and in-store advertising, as well as staff training standards. Implementation would be overseen and enforced through an independent audit and verification mechanism.

I received a first draft of the proposed code from Retail Ireland earlier today and it will now be examined in my Department and in the Department of Health and Children. On cursory examination, it does not seem to go far enough so we will raise the issue with the groups concerned. The groups must demonstrate widespread support for its contents from all the bodies representing mixed trading outlets across the country.

If agreement can be reached on its contents and the required level of support exists for its strict implementation across the mixed trading sector, if I can be satisfied that the code would achieve, in effect, what we have set out to achieve through structural separation and if the code is subject to independent verification on an annual basis, I would be disposed to deferring implementation of section 8 for the moment.

If independent verification of compliance were to show that the code is being implemented effectively across the country and achieving, in effect, what we have set out to achieve through structural separation, it may not be necessary to commence section 8. If it does not achieve this — I want to repeat this — I will not hesitate to commence section 8.

Many contributions to the debate mentioned the special promotions and price discounts that have become so prevalent and are almost the norm in recent times. The advisory group acknowledged in its report that the increased affordability of alcohol is a result not only of reduced prices, but also the increased disposable income levels that have resulted from economic progress and increased prosperity. The group was satisfied, however, that the price at which alcohol is sold remains an important influence on purchasing patterns and that lower alcohol prices are being used as a means of attracting customers in the expectation that they will purchase other products as well as alcohol once inside the premises.

For this reason, the group identified the control of those promotional and pricing practices which appear to encourage increased purchases of alcohol as a potentially important means of tackling excessive consumption patterns. Section 15 of the Bill provides for the making of regulations prohibiting or restricting the advertising or promoting the sale or supply of alcohol at a reduced price, or free of charge, on the purchase of any quantity of alcohol or any other product or service.

Preparatory work has commenced on the drafting of these regulations and because of their potential impact on the EU Internal Market rules, it will be necessary to submit the proposed regulations in draft form to the European Commission for clearance. I do not foresee any specific difficulties with implementing such regulations at this stage, but failure to follow specified procedures could lead to a legal challenge and the subsequent striking down of regulations on technical grounds.

With regard to special exemption orders, existing law currently provides that these may be extended to 2.30 a.m. on the following day and 1 a.m. on Sunday night and Monday morning. When 30 minutes drinking-up time is added, it means that these premises normally close at 3 a.m. The District Court may, for stated reasons, grant orders for a shorter period, which it does. The Bill strengthens the public order ground on which the Garda may object to such orders and, in future, a CCTV system will be a requirement for all events to which the public have access.

I intend to table an amendment on Committee Stage regarding a new provision which will require applicants for special exemption orders to ensure all door supervisors on duty during the events for which the orders are being sought hold the required licences under the Private Security Act 2004. This is intended to assist the Private Security Authority in the enforcement activities under that Act. As I mentioned at the outset, compliance with fire safety requirements will also become a statutory requirement for the grant of special exemption orders.

I am pleased that Deputies from all sides of the House gave a favourable response to the proposals in the Bill that are aimed at tackling the public order problems associated with excessive alcohol consumption. Apart from the upset and annoyance this causes to the public in general, it also places the Garda under serious pressure. I am aware that the point was made in the debate that the success of the public order reforms will be evident only if there is full and vigorous enforcement. I can say that, in drawing up the current proposals, both my predecessor and I were very conscious of that point and, as a result, I believe that in our new proposals for the seizure of alcohol we have come up with a mechanism that is not only going to be easier to enforce, but more effective in pre-empting and preventing public order offences.

I take this opportunity to emphasise once again that the new powers to seize alcohol — either in the case of persons under 18 or from persons causing or likely to cause annoyance or a breach of the peace — can be used even where an offence has not been committed. These new powers are designed primarily to pre-empt and prevent the commission of an offence. The Garda will continue to have a wide variety of existing powers to deal with offences.

Deputies will recall I mentioned my intention to press ahead with plans to introduce fixed charges for certain public order offences, namely, being drunk or being disorderly in a public place, as soon as technical amendments I will introduce on Committee Stage are in place. These amendments will be primarily concerned with removing the Garda from the administrative aspects of the new arrangements. This should add to the attraction, from a Garda perspective, of using the new procedures. While I will spell out the details of the amendments on Committee Stage, suffice to say their introduction should lead to improved enforcement by the Garda.

A number of Deputies drew attention to serious incidents which have arisen in recent times from rows developing at house parties. Unfortunately, a number of people have died in such cases and there is every reason to believe alcohol consumption contributed to many of the incidents in question. Deputies will be aware that, as a rule, there are limitations on the right of the Garda to enter private dwellings. These arise from the Constitution's protection of the inviolability of the private home. As a result, there can be no question of granting powers to the Garda to enter homes in a routine way to seize alcohol. Apart from the constitutional aspects, such a power would be regarded by many as excessive and disproportionate. The law on nuisance is probably more relevant when dealing with problems of this kind. Gardaí may respond if complaints are made about noise and, once at the scene, take steps to disperse a group or to give warnings about the need to desist.

I thank Deputies who contributed to the debate. I have taken note of the points they made and I appreciate their co-operation. I hope the legislation will be passed before the summer recess. I look forward to discussing the wider issue of the sale of alcohol when more comprehensive legislation is introduced at the end of the year.

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