Joe McHugh (Donegal North East, Fine Gael)

I commend the efforts of Deputies Creed and Sheahan in bringing this motion to the House. I commend my colleague, Deputy Perry, on the work he did in opposition in the previous Dáil. I refer, for example, to his contribution to the Fine Gael policy document, Oceans of Opportunity.

The motion before the House mentions that the value of the seafood industry to the economy is over €750 million. If one considers what we could be doing, that figure represents the tip of the iceberg. We need to consider the value-added sector. I acknowledge that the Minister of State with responsibility for food, Deputy Sargent, talks a good game. He needs to implement something, however. Fishing is a tremendous industry with great potential. Rather than talking the talk, we should be walking the walk.

Deputy Jim O'Keeffe spoke succinctly about the legal aspects of the criminalisation of fisheries offences. The simple issue of criminalisation goes to the heart of fishing families and communities. We need to compare like with like. As Deputy Creed argued, the person who put together the rules that force fishermen to dump fish at sea is surely more deserving of being criminalised than, for example, a fisherman who fails to log a telephone call to a fishing port. As the Minister is in control, he is in a position to do something about this issue.

I would like to speak about the scientific advice. I am sure the Minister of State, Deputy Sargent, will have an interest in this. Do scientists take discards into consideration? No, they do not. They do not measure discards. How, therefore, can the biomass of fishing stock in any geographical area be measured at any given point in time? It cannot be done because discards are not being measured. We have to stand with the fishermen, who are willing to work with the Department in this regard. They do not want to dump fish at sea. They are forced into such action when they are in danger of being treated as criminals. Do scientists take environmental issues into consideration? No, they do not. Scientists do not consider the fact that spawning grounds are moving further north. We are always being told that the oceans are getting warmer. The lines which were drawn on the map 30 or 40 years ago are still in use, even though the fish are moving further north. Fishermen are being forced to fish in specified boxes even though they know small fish will be caught in such areas.

We have to get a grip on the reality of this area. The Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, Deputy Smith, has a responsibility to work with the fishermen in the pelagic and demersal sectors. He needs to listen to the fishermen because they have the local knowledge. I refer not only to those currently employed in the fishing sector but also to those who are retired. They know what is happening in the marine environment. They do not need scientists to tell them what is going on. They want to work with people in the scientific industry.

There is a complete disconnect between the roles of the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food and the fishermen. As I said last week, the Minister has an opportunity to show real political leadership in this area. He can take control and start bringing some reality to the fishing industry. There is absolutely no reality there at present. Mackerel fishermen were told in January that they had to do all their fishing within a three-week or six-week period. They know that nobody is telling the haddock or the cod to go into the nets. I know the cod boxes are closed off but has anybody told the cod? This shows the craziness and ludicrousness of having this type of system. At sea fishermen are in different boxes. Cod go into these and that is something we must take seriously and look to the reality.

I know the Minister lives somewhere in the midlands but he has good contacts within the coastal community. I ask that he listen to those people and work with them. He should start working with the science rather than allow the scientists to make ridiculous rules that are unworkable and fly in the face of proper conservation practice. This is what fishermen practise.

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