Andrew Doyle (Wicklow, Fine Gael)

I thank Deputy McHugh for providing me with the opportunity to speak on this Bill. That so many Deputies from throughout the country and across the floor of the House have expressed an interest in speaking on it highlights the fact that it is an issue that affects all of our constituencies and communities.

I note from the introduction that the Intoxicating Liquor Bill is a work in progress. It is intended to be superseded by the sale of alcohol Bill which will be much more extensive. We must recognise that it is not the full picture. If the Government alcohol advisory group was slow to be implemented it certainly got its work done and this Bill has come before the House shortly after the group finished its work. At least we are trying to address the core aspects.

The challenge to legislators is that alcohol, which by its definition is intoxicating, presents challenges to people who either cannot or do not wish to handle it and people who wish to abuse its sale for profit. We must try to allow for and encourage its responsible use while at the same time limiting and punishing those who seek to abuse it for profit. I spoke at a school and told the young fellows there that in ten years' time one or two of them may be alcoholics and they all laughed at me. They all thought drinking was great. This is the culture to which Deputy McHugh and others referred which we must try to change.

Even though we gave out about it, in years gone by the only place one could buy alcohol or get a take-out was in a pub. The local publican and his or her staff in rural areas and in larger pubs in cities and towns had responsibility for the availability of alcohol. To this end, it was easier to define. Certainly, problems existed and it was probably considered that the country did not have any other social outlet at the time. All of our families have experienced at some level or at some distance the implications of an alcoholic or alcohol abuse in a family.

In revising the legislation, we are trying to address the way in which alcohol is available and youth access and access outside the control of drinking on an establishment must be addressed. Access in stores, where alcohol is either on sale to get people in as a loss leader or available in-store anyway, must be controlled. Sensible amendments have been made in that regard in so far as the local store in a village did not have the easiest access as those in charge were responsible. The problem was in larger stores.

Those in the drinks and retail industry have put forward sensible proposals on foot of a realisation on their part that abuse and misuse of alcohol and abuse of its sale in the long term will not suit them. It will lead to more draconian law unless they take responsible action. I would like to think that as responsible citizens they recognise the need to take corrective action. One suggestion that was made is the introduction of a mandatory ID card. RGDATA came up with a proposal similar to a PPSN card or an E111 card — this ID card would be a swipe card. The software is available and the card should not allow a person under the age of 21 to buy spirits or wine, but only beer, with a limit of six, eight or ten in a day. One could pay by cash or card, but the ID card would have to be swiped to clear the sale. I understand we have the technology to do this. It would be expensive but the cost of dealing with some of the consequences of not having such control far outweigh the cost of such a card.

Another area that must be dealt with is punishment, particularly of those who sell alcohol knowingly to people who should not obtain it. I know the sale of alcohol Bill will deal with this more fundamentally with regard to the responsibility of publicans not to serve somebody who is already intoxicated and not to pass the problem outside their door to a disco, pub, nightclub or theatre where disorder can take place. The Garda, courts and emergency services end up picking up the pieces.

It is timely that Deputy McHugh raised the broader issue of how we deal with the attitudes of children and youths to alcohol, alternatives for them and changing the culture of how we deal with it. Most children in secondary schools are now on their three-month summer holidays, with sunlight for 14 hours a day. If they do not have something to do such as a job, an activity or a summer camp, idle hands make for trouble. When a bunch of young fellows are together, no matter how good they are, it will lead to problems.

We need to examine this matter in the context of how we support local communities, be it with scout dens or youth clubs. It is money well spent. The Department of Community, Rural and Gaeltacht Affairs and the Minister, Deputy Éamon Ó Cuív, have a role to play in this, as does the Minister for State with responsibility for children, Deputy Barry Andrews. I wish everybody well. I look forward to the more substantive sale of alcohol Bill which I see from the legislative paper is due at the end of the year. The measures and amendments outlined in this Bill make sense and their implementation and enforcement will be important.

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