Brian O'Shea (Waterford, Labour)

Cuirim fáilte roimh an mBille seo, An Bille Deochanna Meisciúla 2008. Tá sé thar a bheith caoithiúil. Dár ndóigh, beidh Bille díolacháin alcóil ag teacht níos déanaí chun na reachtaíochta go léir i dtaobh alcóil a thabhairt suas chun dáta agus cruth níos éifeachtaí a chur air. Tús atá sa Bhille seo, mar tá níos mó reachtaíochta le teacht. Tá fadhb mhór againn maidir le meisceoireacht, go mór mhór i leith daoine óga. Tá cultúr ann faoi láthair a chaithfimid a athrú go práinneach. Dar ndóigh, tá sé thar a bheith deacair cultúr a athrú, ach sin í an fhadhb agus an dúshlán atá romhainn.

The report of the Government alcohol advisory group does not paint a pretty picture in regard to alcohol consumption. It does not require this report, however, to inform us there is a problem of major proportions in regard to the three areas examined by the group under the excellent chairmanship of Dr. Gordon Holmes, namely, the increase in the number of supermarkets, convenience stores and petrol stations with off-licences and the manner and condition of sale of alcohol products in such outlets, including below unit cost selling and special promotions.

This brings me to an issue which was raised by Dr. Holmes when he addressed the Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women's Rights. He pointed out that there was a major problem in identifying the unit cost. This issue is addressed to some extent in the legislation. So far as I am concerned it is not acceptable that companies are trading here and producing a range of products, the abuse of which causes major problems in society, and yet it is not possible to ascertain the unit cost. One person put it to me that the Minister for Foreign Affairs, Deputy Micheál Martin, the former Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, had indicated that the removal of the groceries order, in regard to below cost selling, had not brought about any reduction in prices and asked whether we should consider bringing back that order for alcohol products.

It is not good enough to proceed on the basis that it is impossible to get down to the basic unit cost. The State should not accept a situation like that and we should certainly deal with it as a matter of urgency. The increasing number of special exemption orders that permit longer opening hours and that are being obtained by licensed premises around the country was the second issue the advisory group was asked to examine. The final point was the use, adequacy and effectiveness of existing sanctions and penalties, especially those directed towards combating excessive and under age alcohol consumption.

The report qualifies the problem in a coherent way. It points out that Ireland has one of the highest levels of alcohol consumption in the European Union. Our consumption levels in 2006 were approximately 30% above the EU average. The report focuses on the problem of binge drinking in particular, which it describes as a cultural attitude to alcohol consumption. It presents two hallmarks of binge drinking as going out to get drunk and the consumption of alcohol before going out. The report states that binge drinking is more common in Ireland than in other EU countries and that the Eurobarometer survey published in 2007 indicated that 34% of Irish drinkers consumed at least five drinks per occasion compared with 10% of the EU population. The report further states that the 2006 national survey of health behaviour in school-age children found that half of children aged 15 to 17 years old reported being current drinkers and just over a third reported being really drunk in the previous 30 days. The 2004 ESPAD report on alcohol and other drugs among students in 35 European countries found that 86% and 79% of 15 and 16 year old students perceived the availability of beer and sprits respectively to be very easy or fairly easy. That does not paint a pretty picture. The key word is culture. In any society or group a culture is something that is difficult to change. It takes time and commitment to do so.

I find it difficult to come to terms with some of the things I have encountered. For example, I understand research carried out by the Health Service Executive indicated that alcohol is being passed on to younger people by older siblings or parents. I heard of an incident in another constituency where a staff member of a supermarket presented himself to a lady who had bought bottles of beer and was giving them to a young person. It turned out he was her son and she became quite abusive towards the supermarket employee. She said she would do what she liked with the alcohol. It is unfortunate that such attitudes appear to prevail and one can only wonder where it will lead.

Provision is made in the legislation for test purchasing, which allows for young people aged between 15 and 17 — with the written permission of their parents — to go into all categories of outlet where alcohol is sold with a view to exposing premises that break the law. That is to be welcomed. Obviously there are risks attached and the situation must be handled delicately. That is a move in the right direction and I believe good will come of it.

It has been put to me also that if we are to deal with the sale of alcohol to minors, there is a need to make the Garda identity card mandatory so that anyone aged under 21 would have to produce it in order to purchase alcohol. Some people might consider that draconian but I believe it could be effective in preventing people under 18 from buying drink at least without the knowledge of the staff or owner of a retail outlet.

Another issue that has been raised with me relates to the penalties paid by people who are caught buying alcohol for minors. It was put to me that one can find individuals outside supermarkets who can make €50 in a relatively short time buying drink for people who are under age. The penalties on conviction for this offence have been described as laughable. I do not have direct experience of the fines as we do not hear a great deal about them. I also understand there is great difficulty in securing convictions in this area even when people are clearly identifiable on CCTV handing over drink to young people. I accept the legislation makes provision for an increase in the fines but from what I can gather from people in business, enforcement is as important as the sentences. Whatever difficulties exist must be confronted and we need to introduce the appropriate measures to make sure that people who engage in this despicable practice are sanctioned. It is a sad state of affairs that anyone would supply drink to minors but especially family members. From what I can gather from people in business, doubling the size of the fine on first conviction from €1,000 to €2,000 with subsequent convictions up to €5,000 is not the solution. Rather, the solution lies in a more effective regime for securing convictions. I am not aware of what difficulties exist in terms of securing convictions under the law as it stands except that I have been told that this is the case.

I raised the issue of violence with the previous Minister, Deputy Brian Lenihan, when we discussed the legislation. Serious incidents have occurred, including death, in private houses where excessive drinking occurs. Private houses are exempt in the legislation. If serious violence and death is resulting from excessive drinking in private houses we need to address the issue. I accept that a man's home is his castle and the home is sacred but life is the most precious thing of all. The Garda is well aware of houses where excessive drinking occurs. We need to come up with legislation that will enable the Garda to bring these people before the courts. More importantly we need interventions that will prevent very serious violence possibly resulting in death. I hope the subsequent sale of alcohol Bill will address such issues. This Bill, which is to streamline and update existing legislation, is most welcome and has been presented by the Minister as an initial step.

Getting back to the concept of culture, legislation can only achieve so much. We need to change the culture with the support of parents in the measures we introduce. Changing culture does not happen overnight. Many people are very concerned over where all this is leading. Some years ago I was dropping one of my children at a disco on a Saturday night. Two scantily clad girls aged no more than 15 were standing outside the premises and were very drunk. I do not believe they got the drink in the premises outside which they were standing. They had got the drink elsewhere and had been refused admission. I spoke to the Garda on the following Monday. The Garda took the following approach, which had considerable merit. When gardaí came across children who were inebriated, they brought them home and presented them to their parents. I was told that in many cases the parents were shocked to see their children's condition. They were going out sober and coming in very late when the parents were asleep in bed. The parents did not see them when they were under the influence of drink. The children stayed in bed until lunchtime the following day, by which time they were no longer inebriated, although they may have had sick heads. The parents were simply not aware of what was happening. That approach is effective and should be welcomed.

An applicant for a wine licence is now required to appear before the District Court, which is a progressive step. However, it has been pointed out to me that there are 5,000 to 6,000 wine licences. Is it a good use of District Court time to require people to appear annually for renewal? Would there be another way to achieve the same effect without using up court time? Across a range of areas court time is a very scarce and valuable commodity. Perhaps there could be a screening system whereby only those licensees to whose licences there had been objections would be required to go before the courts. In addition to cluttering the courts, there is the issue of the expense particularly for smaller operators needing to appear before the courts. This matter needs to be considered sympathetically. They may need to hire a solicitor or a barrister and possibly even an engineer.

When we were speaking with Dr. Holmes I raised the issue of the proliferation of off-licence outlets. When planning applications were submitted the attitude of the local authority was that the market would sort out whether there was a need for an additional off-licence in an area. I am very pleased that the adequacy of number of licensed outlets in an area will be borne in mind, as it will make a positive contribution to the matter we are discussing. I wish the Minister well with the legislation. Some parts would benefit from amendment. It is worth getting it moving to get something done. We also need the sale of alcohol Bill brought before the House as quickly as possible. Legislation is one part and tackling the culture is the other. The Bill contributes in terms of one aspect of the problem.

See this speech in context