Joe Carey (Clare, Fine Gael)

Historically we as Irish people have had a somewhat ambiguous relationship with alcohol and its impact on our society. There is a sneaking regard for a man that can hold his drink. We associate some of our great literary figures and their work with alcohol. Every Irish social occasion involves alcohol. In recent years we have developed as an economy. We develop and export software and pharmaceuticals. We service and contribute to an international financial services industry. However, if we go anywhere in the world, what it is that makes us distinctively Irish? What is it that makes us stand out? The answer to those questions is the Irish pub. Practically every European, American, Asian, African and Australian city boasts its own authentic Irish Pub. One of the first introductions the people from the former communist bloc eastern European countries had to Western culture was the Irish pub. This in itself is not necessarily a bad thing. We have long been associated with hospitality and the clichéd céad míle fáilte. The pub has long been one of the cornerstones of Irish culture, where babies' heads are wetted, political careers established and funeral wakes conducted. It has been stated that prior to our independence the British authorities were quite happy to have the people of Ireland as inebriated as possible in order that rebellion would not take place. It is difficult to rise against the oppressor with a bellyful of ale on board.

I welcome the proposal in the Bill to introduce test purchasing of alcohol for both on-licence and off-licence premises. It would appear that gardaí will be allowed to test pubs and other outlets by sending in under-age people to try to buy drink, in order to expose breaches of the law. The principle of this is fine and should tighten up sale to those who are under age. The previous Minister spoke of using this method "subject to the necessary safeguards". I ask the Minister elaborate on this. Has this type of action using people under the age of 18 been used in any other sphere of Garda activity previously? Are there any constitutional issues in using children to implement legislation in this manner? Surely a national identity card should form a cornerstone of such a proposal.

I welcome any initiative regarding the manner in which alcohol is promoted and discounts applied. There is sophistication in all alcohol advertising. Drinks companies are obviously making vast sums of money when we see the film-type quality of their television advertising.

A friend of mine had occasion to visit Canada in the mid 1990s to attend an event sponsored by a well-known international drinks company. At the time the company referred to the vast untapped market for a new product, alcopops. He did not know what they were and felt the whole thing was daft. Here we are a number of years later with the whole alcohol consumption issue turned on its head. There has been a revolution in what and how people drink. It would be very naïve of us to think that this happened by accident.

We have seen another recent development in the sale of alcohol in that we are now in the era of "buy one get one free". This is a most unwelcome development and reflects on the marketing departments of drinks companies. Allowing the industry to self-regulate and follow a code of practice developed in conjunction with the Department of Health and Children has been the modus operandi heretofore. Perhaps it is time we a had a more vigorous approach as to how alcohol is promoted in society.

Statistics show that approximately 40% of proceedings taken each year for public order offences are for intoxication in a public place. I welcome that fixed-penalty charges for drunk and disorderly offences are planned in this legislation, which should free up the District Court. The Bill also allows a member of the Garda Síochána to seize any bottle or container which is in the possession of a person who appears to be under the age of 18 and which the member suspects, with reasonable cause, contains alcohol which is being consumed, or intended to be consumed, by a person under 18 years in a place other than a private residence.

Surely the substantive issue must be that a person under 18 years should not be consuming alcohol. While I understand that again there are constitutional issues regarding the private residences, is the Minister saying that in the case of a person under 18 found in public by a garda with alcohol the defence of claiming to be on the way home with alcohol will suffice? The Minister stated that alcohol would be seized in public if trouble was brewing and from people under 18 if gardaí think it will not be consumed indoors. Surely if those under 18 are found with alcohol it should be automatic that it be confiscated.

I understand the Minister has rowed back on the part of the Bill relating to early houses, which I welcome. There would not appear to be any element of public disorder associated with these premises. While they may not be to everyone's liking, we need to stay close to the principles of the Bill and temper all proposals with their impact on the relationship between alcohol and public order. I note the Minister has stated there is evidence showing these early houses are now used by people with drink problems. By all means he should show us this evidence and allow us make an informed decision.

We have seen a proliferation of off-licences in recent years. The culture of drinking has changed from the pub to the purchase of alcohol for consumption elsewhere. I have some reservations about the structural changes required under the Bill for mixed-trading retailers in that a structurally separated area will need to be constructed for the display and sale of alcohol. In essence for many businesses they will need to place the alcohol behind the counter and this measure is simply not practical in terms of space and because nearly all beers are now stored in refrigeration units. There are other means to achieve what the Minister wants to achieve on this issue. For instance all alcohol could be sold from a dedicated till covered by CCTV. Secure units could be used for the display of alcohol in a defined area of the shop or quite simply a trader's licence to trade alcohol could be removed immediately on conviction of a breach of the Intoxicating Liquor Acts. With respect to the physical separation of alcohol from the main store it would be more practical to adopt the Northern Ireland model whereby the authorities there have separated the area in which alcohol is sold by providing a physical barrier with access through a gate, turnstile or similar device.

It would be worth considering the introduction of an officially recognised training scheme for those involved in the sale of alcohol. While some responsible traders operate such a scheme, the Bill should compel anyone who sells alcohol to have participated in a scheme. I acknowledge the Minister has stepped back from the structural changes proposed for off-licenses within stores, which I felt were impractical. The Minister must clearly define what he means by a code of standards which he mentioned in his speech to this House last night.

The State has a key role to play in ensuring licensing laws and public order legislation are adequate and effective. Parents, too, have a role to play. We should continue to always underscore the importance of personal responsibility regarding the consumption of alcohol. Our drink culture has changed and become more aggressive. The philosophy of drinking to simply get drunk has become more common over the years. We have public health issues associated with alcohol that we did not have previously. This legislation goes some way towards finally acknowledging that we, as a people, have problems in this area.

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