Timmy Dooley (Clare, Fianna Fail)

I welcome the opportunity to contribute to the debate on this Bill. It has been clear for some time that legislation of this type is necessary. We are all aware of the difficulties associated with the abuse of alcohol and of the necessity to introduce some measures to curb the consumption of alcohol. However, that has to be set against a backdrop of a culture of the consumption of alcohol. I listened to the debate last evening and I have just listened intently to Deputy Rabbitte. I suppose he is right in suggesting no Bill will resolve this problem, whether this one or the sale of alcohol Bill, as proposed.

The introduction of this Bill and the subsequent debate will help highlight an issue that needs to be addressed. It will always be difficult to address a cultural issue. There is little doubt that our current status in terms of the consumption of alcohol has been developed over a considerable period. For many years, Irish people consumed more alcohol than their European neighbours and continue to do so. The buoyancy in the economy in recent years has certainly aided and abetted the increased level of alcohol consumption, particularly among young people. That is an issue that needs to be addressed.

This Bill is a first step. A number of Opposition speakers have indicated it does not go far enough, as did Deputy Rabbitte. It is about setting a target whereby the Government will be in a position to take this issue seriously and attempt in legislation to curb the consumption of alcohol, so far as it can. Taken with the promised sale of alcohol Bill, there will be a suite of measures to help. At the end of the day it is rather like road safety. Clearly the two are linked and there is personal choice. We live in a democracy. To the extent that one can prevent people doing the dastardly acts outlined by many speakers, there is a limit as to how far one can go in legislation. The issue will require a much greater level of debate in society.

In regard to our thinking about alcohol, we have to look at the education system. Other societies have a much more mature way of dealing with alcohol. For example, in France wine is almost part of the diet and, as such, there is not the same excitement about young people obtaining access to alcohol where it is treated in the same way as many of us treat water. For that reason a cultural shift is required and this can only happen through debate. Our habits and practices have developed over many years and are very different from European and international practices.

Some of the benchmarks identified in terms of the level of alcohol consumption here versus others probably do not give fair recognition to what truly goes on. I read some statistics recently which seem to suggest that an Irish person is more likely to take up to five drinks at one particular event. That is not to suggest people drink every day, whereas in other countries people will have a couple of glasses of wine, perhaps, every day. Perhaps we are not as bad as some of the international statistics suggest.

It would be wrong not to compliment the Government's alcohol advisory group, chaired by Dr. Gordon Holmes, on the efforts it has made in informing the debate. In its report the group has identified methodologies of dealing with this problem while clearly recognising there are limitations as to what can be done in a democracy and how one can help prevent the problems society is encountering in this regard.

Certainly there was concern about the increase in the level of off-licence trade and its impact on the consumption of alcohol. We have all seen the development of the larger supermarkets and the aggressive approach adopted in regard to the sale of alcohol, for example, below-cost selling and promotional practices that have encouraged volume sales. It is not unusual to see a number of young people walk out of some of the larger supermarkets with a slab of cans. That is becoming a regular sight. The restriction proposed for opening hours is welcome. That it will apply to supermarkets and off-licences is helpful.

The below-cost unit selling and the special promotions were particularly disingenuous from so-called responsible retailers who set themselves up in communities. They work with schools through the provision of tokens to buy computers and do much to generate business in their communities but, on the other hand, use alcohol products as a loss leader to attract people to their stores. It is only right that those practices be prevented. They do nothing for the children in our society. Many supermarkets work with communities and have various programmes for providing IT equipment for schools. That they do the two, side by side, is disingenuous and I would hope the issue can be resolved without legislation. We are all contributors to the problem and can have an input into its resolution. We need to appeal to those involved in the sale of alcohol, not necessarily to stick to the letter of the law but to have a conscience about the predatory practices they employ. If that could be done, it would deal with the issue in a more sensible way than bringing forward legislation that it may not be possible to enforce.

The alcohol advisory group, chaired by Dr. Holmes, looked at the special exemption orders and some of the longer opening hours that have developed. It looked also at the existing sanctions and penalties for those people who broke the law. It is right and fitting that the sanctions be commensurate with the profits that can be made from the sale of alcohol and the provision of facilities in that regard. I would hope that sanctions and penalties could be used effectively where people have been found to be in breach of the law. It is all about combatting excessive under age drinking.

If those who are under age begin to consume far too much alcohol it can have a huge impact on their ability to continue in education or find suitable employment and can cause devastation in their lives. It is not just about the impact on the street at night — public order offences are a concern at another level — the grip of alcohol, together with drugs, can have a huge impact on lives. For that reason it is right and fitting that we should find methods to deal with it.

Ireland has one of the highest alcohol consumption levels in the EU. That, combined with the lethal cocktail of drugs, poses a real problem particularly around binge drinking, which has a negative effect on society. We all know its impact in terms of road deaths. Some 36% of fatal crashes involve alcohol consumption and 28% of injuries at accident and emergency departments involve alcohol in one way or another. It plays a huge role in domestic violence. Almost half of those who have committed homicide offences were intoxicated. It is important that we continue to highlight the problem and generate publicity as we have done in regard to some of the health promotion measures that have taken place, particularly in the area of smoking. Some of the measures taken by the Government in the past, while not legislative, to promote a healthier lifestyle have been helpful in terms of changing people's practices in regard to smoking and eating. We debated some serious issues in terms of a balanced diet and its impact on public health. Clearly alcohol should also be looked in terms of a public health policy. Investment, through education and an effective campaign promoting public health will ultimately have a beneficial effect, perhaps greater than any restrictive or legislative practice a Government may introduce. That is not to suggest I do not support the Bill which I do and I support the Minister's efforts in regard to the development of the sale of alcohol Bill. We must be practical however and view the issue in the context of the current situation and of our overall culture on the consumption of alcohol. There is little doubt that the misuse of alcohol has a tremendous impact on the economy, especially in terms of the loss of working days in the commercial and public sectors. That aspect is probably not highlighted sufficiently. Absenteeism is a problem, especially on Mondays. Changes in that regard may be in the pipeline due to the straitened economic circumstances in which we find ourselves. The level of absenteeism in certain professions and sectors is significant and that needs to be addressed within the workplace. If people felt their jobs would be in jeopardy if they did not show up on Monday, it might contribute to a change in behaviour on Sunday night much more than would a change to the closing time of bars. To find a solution, we need to examine the matter in a holistic way.

There is a difficulty with public order in certain areas and the impact drunkenness has on the lives of other people, especially late at night. There is also an impact on tourism. For many years Ireland was seen as a country where people enjoyed a drink. We might have consumed a little more alcohol than our European neighbours or our friends in America but, notwithstanding that, we were seen as jovial characters. The caricatures that emerged were by and large positive. Unfortunately, alcohol and drug consumption by some younger people causes aggressive behaviour which has tarnished that image. That mix has changed the way in which people behave and led them to take things too far. We are at risk of significant losses if we are not prepared to tackle the problem and to deal with it in a measured, effective way.

We need to get tough on public order. I am sure the Minister is in contact with the Garda. Powers must be available to the Garda that will allow it to do its job effectively so that drunkenness and loutish behaviour is removed from our streets in so far as possible and as quickly as possible in a manner that will ensure people do not continue to serially offend. I refer for example to anti-social behaviour orders and other legislative measures.

The Bill deals with restrictions on the opening of off-licences. It is especially welcome that these measures are being extended to some large supermarkets. There is effectively a duopoly within the supermarket sector, as two of the large chain stores that are omnipresent throughout the country have a hold on the retail grocery trade. They have been branching into below cost selling of alcohol and the practices I outlined earlier in terms of the sale of multiple packs of cans of alcoholic drink known as slabs of cans. It is regrettable that this is happening and it is correct that the opening hours for their off-trade would be restricted in the same way as off-licences.

I am delighted the Minister has decided to change his mind on early houses. I was one of the people who had lobbied him on the matter — not that I have ever stood in an early house, to the best of my knowledge. I walk by an early house on my way to the Dáil every Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday morning and I regularly banter with a couple of fellows who stand outside the door smoking cigarettes. They do not seem to pose a public order threat. From talking to other people who have encountered the phenomenon of early houses, that appears to be the general consensus. It is clear that the problem does not lie with early houses. While it might have provided the Minister with an opportunity to demonstrate a "get tough" attitude, it would not have had any effect. I am delighted he avoided the opportunity to look tough and has been much more practical in the measures contained in the Bill.

It is correct that the off-sales criteria that apply to off-licences would also apply to early houses. Existing early houses will continue to be treated in the same way they are currently. That is a workable solution and will help to protect some of the character of society. Had we chosen the other option, it would have been regrettable because early houses have become a feature of a certain part of city life for some people. They are a source of wonder and amusement for visitors. To some extent, early houses are a tourist attraction. I am not sure if tourists drink in early houses but they certainly visit them and talk about this aspect of Irish life.

I remain somewhat concerned about the necessity for a District Court certificate for wine retail outlets or off-licences. I have been lobbied by people, some from small retail stores, who do not see wine as being a major problem. There is no evidence of large amounts of wine being consumed to the detriment of society in a way that would constitute a threat to public order. I am more concerned about below-cost selling and cheap beers in terms of public order. Cheaper sources of alcohol are available than wine. I am not certain there is a necessity for the measure, which may only result in the courts being clogged up when we would be better advised to keep them free to deal with more serious offences. The Minister appears to have made up his mind but perhaps he will reconsider it at a later Stage.

I welcome the practical approach adopted by the Minister to the structural separation of alcohol from other products in retail outlets. I lobbied the Minister on the issue, as did other Members on this side of the House, about the difficulty it would have created for many convenience stores and smaller supermarkets in rural areas. Clearly, they provide a service where people generally purchase off-licence sales for consumption at home. That measure would have created an almost impossible burden on most of the shops I know where space is not available. The range of products stocked by many convenience stores is such that one is not required to travel to a large multinational store, which is helpful. If the Minister were to opt to separate alcohol products, that would drive consumers further into the grip of the duopoly that exists within the supermarket business. In the long run, that would be to the detriment of competition and rural communities.

I welcome the Minister's helpful approach to engage with the industry. He has invited the industry to come forward with a voluntary code of practice. The Minister has indicated that if the measures are independently verifiable he will consider not commencing section 8. That is a genuine effort on the part of the Minister to try to resolve the matter, and one where I hope the interaction between the two sides will be such that a solution can be found that does not damage the viability of smaller stores.

I welcome the fact that wine is to be exempt from any separation or code that might emerge. Deputy Rabbitte used flowery language about the fondling of wine bottles. That has become the practice for people, who, whether they are wine connoisseurs or not, like to give the impression that they are. In these times of straitened economic circumstances one would not want to take that from people if they feel it necessary to touch their purchase. The tightening of the special exemption order is welcome. The insistence on the use of CCTV is also helpful. To the best of my knowledge all good public houses that seek a late exemption or have night club businesses believe CCTV is an integral part of the security of the business.

It is helpful that theatre licences have been removed. I hope the Minister will review the nightclub sector. The Irish Nightclub Industry Association has sought a definition of nightclubs in law, which would be welcome. They should also be granted an annual nightclub permit.

Further to what Deputy Rabbitte said about sequential closing, the Minister should consider ending the prohibition of entertainment during the drinking-up time. At the moment during the half-hour drinking-up time nightclubs and bars are prevented from playing music, which adds to the speed at which people exit the building. If they were allowed play music for that half-hour, albeit with the bars closed, it would delay the exit from the building and allow a degree of sequential movement on to the streets.

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