Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)

That is a shame. If an assistant secretary in the Department of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food, who are not noted for their frankness, were to make a statement like the one made by the assistant secretary in the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, one can imagine what the IFA response would be. If an assistant secretary in the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment made that kind of comment one can imagine what the response of IBEC and the others would be. I take it at face value. It seems to confirm that it is very difficult to engage the senior policy-making people in the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform with any views that are not born in St. Stephen's Green, which is regrettable.

It would have been very helpful to have had a cost-benefit analysis of this super-prison as compared with a configuration of smaller prisons and an investment in non-custodial alternatives. We have yet to get from the Minister a statement of his philosophy on non-custodial alternatives. The Minister refuses to engage with us on penal policy. He will talk to us about the prison, the access road, how many prisoners we have and all the rest, but he will not engage with us on penal policy. I refer Members to the last paragraph of his script in which he promises to provide "vastly improved facilities in small-scale institutions." I have long marvelled at and complimented the Civil Service on its capacity to master language. We are no longer dealing with a super-prison.

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