Pat Rabbitte (Dublin South West, Labour)

Deputy Charlie Flanagan referred to the conference of yesterday and today and to the remarks of Professor Ian O'Donnell who highlighted again why experts in penal policy and criminology do not think very much of the course we have taken. I would like to advert to a different speaker at yesterday's conference, a paragraph of whose contribution I wish to put on the record. That is the contribution made by an assistant secretary of the Department of Justice, Equality and Law Reform, who said:

The first priority of the Department is to keep the existing criminal justice system operating. This is a major logistical exercise in itself involving the management of 20,000 people and €2 billion per year.

Up to 60% of the energy of the headquarters of the Department is spent accounting to Parliament and responding to media inquiries. A crisis often generates a need for an instant policy change. It is only in a very small number of circumstances that the Department has an opportunity to take a considered and measured approach to new policy formulation.

That is one of the most remarkable statements I have ever heard from a senior official of a Department. I do not know whether to thank him for his frankness or whether it is a blatant comment that he is spending too much time responding to Parliament. Taking him and his remarks at face value, it is not often that a senior official of the Department makes such a blunt and frank assessment of the state of the Department in terms of policy. Let me remind the Acting Chairman of what he said. He referred to the huge logistical task of managing 20,000 people. I do not know what he means by that. Is he talking about the prisoners or the staff? He must be talking about the prisoners. He also referred to the spend of €2 billion per year. He indicated that up to 60% of the time of headquarters is spent accounting to Parliament or responding to the media. I am flummoxed. If the Minister cannot organise the Department in such a fashion that it can respond to Parliament and the media without expending 60% of its energy we are in a very serious place. The official went on to say that a crisis often generates an instant change of policy. That sentence also requires more forensic time than we can give it here. He then stated it is only in a very small number of circumstances that the Department has an opportunity to take a considered and measured approach to new policy formulation. What does the Minister have to say about that? It is unprecedented for somebody as senior as an assistant secretary to say it is only in a very small number of circumstances that the Department has the opportunity to reflect on policy formulation. That is exactly what Professor Ian O'Donnell and other critics have been saying; that the Department has not been engaging, that it does not want to engage, and now this man is saying that the Department does not have the time to engage. The Minister has decided on this juggernaut and he is driving it on no matter what obstacles he meets on the road irrespective of what arguments are advanced. He is driving full speed ahead.

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