Mary O'Rourke (Longford-Westmeath, Fianna Fail)

If I may say so, Deputy Rabbitte had his tongue in his cheek when he quoted the eminent Senator, but he still did it in his usual dry fashion so one is not quite clear what exactly he meant by it.

In a general sense, I would welcome a purpose built prison to replace the prison built in 1850. We have read many articles over the years about slopping out and other poor conditions in Mountjoy. The conditions are wrong and have given rise to great rebukes in the hallowed halls where these things are discussed, especially the UN, about the way our prison service functions. However, given that such a large prison is to be built, there is an opportunity to infuse it with passion and commitment. It should not be just a prison into which people are put and out of which they will come, no whit better in their manner or disposition towards civil society, or in any way improved in their character. It is also a chance to improve the way in which the whole prison service is managed and to look at the area of restorative justice, as well as the community service scheme.

I recently put down a question in the House about the community service scheme, and the Minister told me a report on its review was due shortly. When is that report due and will we be debating it in this House? It is important we should do so. I always felt that the scheme should be used much more frequently and much more creatively. I have never yet met a person who has been on a community service scheme, but such an idea is a good one. If it is reviewed properly, we will know what role it has played in the lives of those fined in the courts. Of course judges hand down sentences they think are correct, and I agree with that.

The Minister stated that women occupy 4% of prison space, which is small. He stated they are generally imprisoned for crimes involving violence and drugs, so a prison sentence is needed. A few years ago, the then Minister showed female Members of the House around the Dóchas centre in Mountjoy. I was taken by the open aspect of it and I felt that women would feel safe in that prison. I do not see why that centre has to go to Thornton Hall and I feel it could remain in its current location. I know the Minister has given assurances about the separation of males from females, which is welcome. However, the Dóchas centre in its inner-city location is near to many of the women prisoners' families. Many of them have young children. Its close proximity was suitable for families, for constant visits from young children, enabling them to meet their mother. The Minister might look again at the Dóchas initiative for women prisoners. The Jesuit Centre for Faith and Justice recently brought over Baroness Corston — author of the Corston report — to give a lecture, to which the Minister was invited. She spoke about the review she had carried out on women prisoners in the UK and the findings. There may well be a case for retaining Dóchas where it is, rather than shipping everybody out to Thornton Hall, making that into a giant complex.

The Minister has said the transport services will be frequent and reasonably priced. They would need to be. It is very easy to get to Mountjoy. Despite all its material disadvantages, there is easy access for visitors. The relative inaccessibility of Thornton Hall will be a major stumbling block, if it is not attended to. I suggest an official should give attention to visiting services and accessibility. The Minister talks of a low cost transport service that will tie in with the visiting hours, but he is not willing to designate specific transport hubs at this stage. That is fair enough, but an official should be dedicated to investigating the required transport arrangements to ensure that people are able cheaply to visit those of their family and friends who are in custody.

The Minister gives the main points that the rapporteur has come back with from his consultation with the local residents. I have not met the local residents at any time; I have just read what they are saying and doing about the whole matter. I expect they have made submissions to the committee. Deputy Rabbitte has said they did not have enough time to go through them in a comprehensive fashion, as they would have wished. Nonetheless, I trust in the wisdom of the Minister and his Department to ensure that, in the main, the physical design of the building as it progresses will best tie in with the needs of the local residents. We have all, in a small way, dealt with planning regulations for houses etc. and in general those physical matters can be attended to without too much difficulty. I hope that will be the case.

I reiterate that I wish to see the publication of a full review of the committee services scheme, to see what it says as regards the efficacy of such a scheme and how it can be sharpened and made more suitable to the location and those going into it. I am quite sure the National Commission on Restorative Justice will issue a report. I do not recall when it was set up, but it is not that long ago.

The existing women's prison at Mountjoy is a lovely building which has been only 15 years in existence. I wonder whether any report has been done on the operation of Dóchas and what effect it has had on women prisoners, how they have fared coming from it, and whether restorative justice has been prevalent within its confines. I ask the Minister and his officials to look again at the possibility of keeping Dóchas in its present form and at the non-implementation of the proposed women's prison at Thornton Hall. For reasons of ease of access for families and for the prisoners themselves, and as a better custodial method, it ranks very high and it would be wrong to lose it to the Prison Service.

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