Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)

That is the situation.

On Deputy Kenny's question about where we go from here, we must have a discussion with colleagues. They have indicated to us that they will try to assist us if they can in regard to how we would like to proceed. We have to have that discussion, the outcome of which I cannot anticipate. The only thing I can reiterate is that the treaty cannot be ratified unless all states ratify it.

As we said during the campaign, there are consequences to decisions. If we voted one way, we knew what we were getting but if we voted the other, we did not know. What we know now is that we must have dialogue with others to see what emerges from it.

The question of the commissionership was one of the great falsehoods or great ironies of the debate, that is, the idea that if one voted "No", one would keep one's Commissioner. A provision in the Nice treaty refers to reducing the number of Commissioners once the EU reaches 27 member states. The process by which that will be done has not been agreed but that is stated in the Nice treaty. Our legal position in that regard was already established.

The negotiating achievement of the Lisbon treaty was to bring about a situation where the reduction upon reaching 27 member states would be deferred to 2014 and that if there was unanimous agreement thereafter, it would be possible to continue with the existing arrangement.

Let us be clear about this because it is a matter of public record. During our presidency of the European Union in 2004 I, as Minister for Foreign Affairs, and the Minister of State, Deputy Dick Roche, as Minister of State with responsibility for European affairs, said when the convention was established that we would like to see the retention of a Commissioner for each member state. We were always of that view but we came to a negotiated position. There were others who said we should reduce the number of Commissioners in the interests of the efficacy and efficiency of the Commission in order that everyone on the Commission would have a substantive job to do and that would be a better way. We ended with negotiations which sought to meet the requirements of those with different views on these matters. We ended up with an advance on the Nice treaty which was ratified by the Irish people. That is the truth of the issue. There is no legal basis for the claim in the misleading posters urging a "No" vote in order to keep our Commissioner. One thing we are sure of is there is a stronger treaty provision for losing a Commissioner now than if there had been a "Yes" vote. That argument was put a different way for other purposes and we will leave it at that. Negotiations are about finding an accommodation which meets the interests of all where possible.

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