Joe Carey (Clare, Fine Gael)

I refer to the juvenile justice aspect of this motion. As part of the Mountjoy complex, St. Patrick's Institution, which deals with 16 to 21 year old offenders, is to close when Thornton Hall prison is completed. The Government has also decided to develop new children's detention facilities on a State-owned site at Oberstown, Lusk, County Dublin. The fact that we are at a relatively advanced stage in the development of Thornton Hall, with little or no progress in the development of facilities for 16 to 18 year olds, indicates to me that the Minister will have a significant problem on his hands by 2011. This is because the State will not have appropriate space to deal with that age group. This very real scenario will be in direct contravention not only of the Children Act 2001, which stipulates that all children who are detained must be kept in suitable detention centres, but also of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child.

The Government has no integrated plan to deal with the separation of juveniles from adults once St. Patrick's Institution is closed. In answer to a recent parliamentary question I tabled, the previous Minister, Deputy Brian Lenihan, said "In the interim, 16 and 17 year old boys may continue to be detained in St. Patrick's Institution". He also referred to "those who will continue to be held there pending the new development at Lusk". This reply seems vague and displays a non-committal attitude to the issue of developing appropriate facilities for juveniles. The previous Minister also stated that "The development at Lusk, which is a children detention school model and not a prison, will require careful planning and consultation". The term "careful planning and consultation" would again indicate that the Government is way behind in developing the juvenile facility.

Furthermore, the previous Minister practically admitted that Thornton Hall will be used for juvenile offenders when he said: "Should it be required when the Mountjoy complex is closed, interim accommodation for 16 and 17 year old boys, segregated from adults, will be provided on the Thornton Hall campus, pending the provision of children detention school facilities. On completion of the detention school development project in Lusk, all children under 18 years of age being detained will only be accommodated in dedicated children facilities."

I note that in his earlier speech to the House, the new Minister confirmed that children will be accommodated in the Thornton Hall facility. This situation is totally unacceptable and is in breach of the Children Act 2001. The Government appears incapable of planning for the future of such juveniles. The Minister has an opportunity to develop appropriate juvenile facilities for this century, as part of an overall integrated detention school and prison package. However, he continues to run the risk of placing juveniles on the same campus as more mature prisoners, thereby failing to break the cycle that has continued for generations.

The Minister should give a clear indication of how he proposes to proceed with the development of facilities for juveniles. He should outline a specific timeframe for the Lusk project. He should also tell this house how he will fast-track the juvenile detention centre at Lusk so it can be delivered in parallel with the Thornton Hall project. There is a distinct possibility that the continued pursuit of the Thornton Hall prison without integrating the plan for a specific juvenile detention centre and its associated rehabilitative measures such as education, training and restorative justice will perpetuate the mistakes that have been made.

The Minister cannot think that merely creating a super prison will cure all ills. We have a stack of reports such as the 20 year old Whitaker report, the 1994 report on the management of offenders and the 2002 report on the reintegration of prisoners by the National Economic and Social Forum all pointing out the same things.

We in Fine Gael say it is time the Minister dealt with this problem and put the necessary measures in place to prevent the housing of juvenile offenders with adult prisoners in Thornton Hall.

See this speech in context