Brian Hayes (Dublin South West, Fine Gael)

As the Fine Gael spokesman on education, I welcome the briefing I have been given by officials at the Department of Education and Science when this matter was first brought to my attention on Friday last. Clearly, there was a view within our party that we would support the motion as a means of bringing to an end the work of the commission and ensuring that it could complete its report, put it into the public domain as soon as possible and bring to an end this sorry saga which started when the Taoiseach first apologised on behalf of the country in 1999. Any contribution we make in this debate will be marshalled towards ensuring the full publication of the report as soon as possible. I wish the commission well in this regard.

When the motion is passed, as I assume it will, and when the eight-month period is established, it will be important to send a very strong message from this House to the effect that the report should be published once completed. The period covered in the investigation dates from 1921 to 1980 and, therefore, many of those who made a complaint could be dead. It is crucial, therefore, that the report be published immediately when the commission completes its work. This would offer some comfort to those who made very serious complaints to the commission over the past eight years or so.

The Minister of State has already given us information on the dual work of the commission, which involves the confidential committee and the investigative committee. Over 1,090 people have made direct complaints to the confidential committee and 252 have made complaints to the investigative committee, part of the work of which is in public session.

It is crucial to the integrity of the commission and the investigative process that the commission's recommendations be circulated in the public domain as soon as possible given the age of those who had to make complaints over the past seven or eight years. While the investigation is judicial, most of the commission's work has been in private. This model of investigation is very useful in dealing with such sensitive issues to the satisfaction of the victims who were abused over a long period.

It is fair to say that the response to this issue since 2002 by the previous Government was found wanting. I refer specifically to the decision taken by Ms Justice Laffoy in 2003 to resign from the commission because of the failure on the part of the Department of Education and Science to co-operate with the commission she was chairing at the time. She put on the public record very serious deficiencies on the part of the Department at the initial stage of the commission's work and referred to its co-operation, or lack thereof. Ms Justice Laffoy was hampered in her work.

The fundamental flaw was that the commission was under the aegis of the Department of Education and Science when it should not have been, given that the Department had a contractual relationship with the 18 institutions and religious orders for the placement of children over the period under investigation. Considerable mistakes were made in 2002 and 2003 and I am glad that we have been able to make progress since the appointment of Mr. Justice Ryan and the amendment of the standing orders of the commission in 2003.

Very severe mistakes were made by the Government in 2002 and this holds true even if one ignores the indemnity agreement. This agreement, given its content and the sum of money provided, was possibly the worst the State has ever negotiated between it and the 18 religious congregations. Over the course of the next few years, we will look back on this period in our history with much shame and regret.

Regardless of what we do about the past, it is crucial that the State updates the law on child protection and that the Dáil ensures the Government is held to account regarding the prosecution and resourcing of child protection policy. Considerable mistakes were made in the past and terrible injustices were suffered over many years. It is crucial that we have in place, and have confidence in, a system of child protection that ensures neglect and abuse, where they occur, are highlighted immediately and appropriate action is taken.

Given the comments of Deputy Shatter on the Order of Business today, the comments of many individuals and the work of "Prime Time" over the past two weeks, it is evident that there is insufficient confidence in the existing regime of child care protection in the State.

During Question Time with the Minister for Education and Science yesterday, I raised the issue of the vetting of teachers who work with children in the education system. The Minister confirmed that in excess of 1,000 untrained substitute teachers are working in the system daily, yet there is no means whatsoever by which to vet them and assess their standing in terms of child protection. There is a fundamental legal loophole over which the Department has presided. There are no vetting arrangements whatsoever for untrained substitute teachers, yet we talk about the extraordinarily scandalous abuses of the past. This is unacceptable. The Department has known about this problem for many years. Of the 55,000 teachers currently working in the system, how many have been vetted by way of the procedure over which the Minister of State and the Department allegedly stand and support?

I am aware that the vetting procedures are working well in respect of new recruits to the teaching profession. Once a teacher is trained in college, he or she is subject to a vetting procedure. However, what about the teachers who may have been out of the country for a long period and who return to this jurisdiction to teach in our schools? Are there guarantees that there are no difficulties with this cohort? The vetting procedures over which the Department allegedly stands are not working and are utterly deficient in offering assurances and guarantees in respect of child protection.

I am glad I have the opportunity to refer to a conference organised last weekend by the Irish National Teachers Organisation. It addressed the question of how a teacher, principal or board of management should report alleged abuse and deal with the issue when it arises in the school setting. Let me put on record some of the findings of the survey commissioned recently by the Irish National Teachers Organisation. One in four teachers in primary schools has referred an allegation or made a disclosure of child abuse to the Health Service Executive. This is an extraordinary statistic. Nearly 25% of teachers have made that complaint. However, fewer than half of the primary teachers charged with reporting allegations of child abuse to the HSE have had any training and of those, 70% indicated it was inadequate. Designated officers, the vast majority of whom are school principals, are being asked to take responsibility in a school setting for both reporting allegations or potential problems of child abuse and taking responsibility for the establishment of such regimes within schools. However, such officers have not been given adequate training and support from the HSE or the Department of Education and Science. It is unforgivable that such a situation should obtain within Irish schools. Great responsibility has been given in legislation to the designated officers, the vast majority of whom are principals, but they are being asked to do a job for which they have not been properly trained. I await with interest the Minister of State's response at the conclusion of this debate. The Department of Education and Science has a specific responsibility to co-ordinate the activities of the HSE in the country's 4,500 schools to ensure those designated officers are given the requisite support, hands-on help and proper training for those designated officers.

Reference was made in the course of the aforementioned conference last weekend to difficulties that are arising in respect of the issue of child protection with some newcomer children. I refer in particular to cultural differences and what the parents of such children consider to be acceptable levels of punishment and discipline. Given the new multiethnic school system that we have and the extraordinary opportunities for this country that come with it, arising from teachers' observations I suggest there is an issue regarding the appropriateness of discipline and action taken by some newcomer parents to this country. There is an absolute responsibility at school level to ensure parents who come from different cultures to live in Ireland must become aware of what is and is not acceptable in respect of punishment of their children or the standards applied in Ireland. This only can be done through information, inclusion and by the Department taking responsibility through the school system to ensure the inculcation in all children and parents of what we consider to be acceptable standards of behaviour by parents towards their children, thus ensuring that such standards will apply.

As I noted at the outset, Fine Gael supports the motion and wishes the commission well. Crucially, however, the victims of this extraordinary scandal of child abuse are people who now are in their 60s, 70s and possibly 80s. From their perspective, this issue must be brought to a conclusion and the report must be published. Most importantly, recommendations for the future must be learned as soon as possible.

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