Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)

On the first matter, I served on a local authority for eight years — I do not know how long the Deputy served on one. My county never had a section 4, by the way. Regarding avoiding conflicts of interest, it is a matter that needs fuller consideration when it comes to the implementation of the proposal. I am not dismissing the possibility of variation of approach depending on the particular responsibility. The purpose is to provide some reassurance. When people leave the public service and move into a related area, I do not accept the suggestion that they can operate as if they were still in loco in the original place and are able to sort out matters from outside in a way that is inappropriate or unethical because that reflects on the ethical position of the new incumbent of the position that was vacated. These decisions are taken quasi-judicially by city and county managers. For planning decisions there are procedures and protocols, and means by which representations can be made.

We do not want to defeat a policy objective that results in public officials moving to the private sector and individuals moving from the private to the public sector. The more interaction and cross-pollination there is, the better for creating a better awareness by everybody of their specific and distinct responsibilities. By trying to deal with one perceived possible issue let us not end up closing off that objective which would also be a good one. It is about striking a balance between various considerations. I do not suggest that the consideration the Deputy makes is not one that needs to be put into the mix. It does need to be put into the mix and it is a matter of judgment then.

At the end of the day the question of ethical behaviour is the responsibility of the individual concerned anyway. Once an official moves into the private sector and certain issues arise, it is open to the person concerned as to what would be regarded as the appropriate thing to do. Perhaps this would form part of the consideration of the buffer zone idea. For example, such a person should not be part of that file in that office and should not engage precisely for the reason the Deputy has given. There are ways and means of doing that without a legislative response. It could be a code of conduct. We need to think the matter through. It is a fair point. I do not dismiss it as there is substance to what he has to say, but we also need to be careful we do not end up throwing out the baby with the bath water.

Regarding the gifts, I will check the protocol on that. Unfortunately, I have not been a great recipient of those from even the most benign of regimes.

See this speech in context