Brian Cowen (Laois-Offaly, Fianna Fail)

The validity of the Deputy's comments falls away when he falls into this stereotypical argument, which is not envisaged. It is envisaged that a core ministerial team will remain with the Minister to deal with his parliamentary and ministerial duties in Dublin. That was always the intention. The Deputy asked what was the problem with moving a headquarters. There is no problem moving a headquarters. One can move the headquarters of Bord na Móna from Newbridge to Tullamore or Portlaoise in the morning if one wants. Headquarters can be set up outside this city. Let us not fall into that trap.

The public interest is an issue and we are making sure to decentralise, as we decentralised previously, in a way that does not take from the efficacy and the efficiency of output. Recasting results from engagement. For example, the Revenue Commissioners moved to Kildare. Its ICT unit was supposed to move there but the commissioners had a discussion on this. They came back to me as Minister and made a good business case that the move should not happen but other sections could move. I had no problem accommodating that because a business case was made that it would be best not to do it that way following further detailed examination. That is the good, sensible engagement about which I am talking.

The immediate reaction was that decentralisation was being compulsorily imposed and we were riding roughshod over people's rights and entitlements. I never agreed to, said or indicated that would happen. We hoped in my part of the country, if the programme was implemented in full and in a timely fashion, that we would be a good beneficiary of it. I was never of the view decentralisation would automatically happen and that it would have to happen through the usual ordinary industrial relations processes. If that works out, it works out and that is still my position. There are good examples of decentralisation around the country, including in my own constituency. I can say that hand on heart because I know it to be the case. The staff are tremendously happy there and they are doing excellent work.

In the meantime where locations are earmarked, as the Deputy said, the staff are getting on with their work. Their representative bodies are looking after their interests. I would like more engagement but there is no suggestion of people needing to be distracted, that something is about to happen against their interests. That certainly will not happen. If the Deputy returned to his occupation, he would be well capable of doing this.

Let us deal with the issues as they stand. A total of 3,400 officials have moved or are ready to go. In the State agency sector, 20% of staff or 1,000 officials have indicated to the CAF they would like to be considered for a move. Whether that can be accommodated depends. One of the best ways to sort this out in order that people are not left in an administrative limbo about whether they are moving is to get over the refusal to engage in the issues. As Minister for Finance, I was as candid as possible giving whatever reassurance people required for that engagement to take place because I want a sensible outcome to all these issues. However, we cannot do it on the basis of the dialogue of the deaf. A Department should not be expected to walk away from a process that has not been given an opportunity to proceed. Let us have the confidence of our positions and get into the process and let us get to the point the Deputy is discussing.

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