Damien English (Meath West, Fine Gael)

I thank the Ceann Comhairle for the chance to say a few words on this Bill. Although the Bill is fairly short, the Minister's speech introduced a few different areas into the debate so that gives us all the chance to talk about interconnectors in different counties throughout the country. It is a useful Bill which we all support. Giving EirGrid more powers and letting it go and do its job is probably correct and it is a wonder we are doing it only now. I am sorry the other Bill relating to EirGrid is not coming through to give it the powers and assets, and break up the ESB once and for all. There are difficulties with ESB staff, which I hope can be sorted out shortly. Until now EirGrid was mainly involved in planning, researching and getting organised. Now it has to spend real money and deliver projects. Some ambitious targets have been set for these interconnectors and the Minister said he hopes that by 2012 the east-west interconnector will be built. He also claimed the same date for the North-South interconnector. If the current approach continues, I wish him luck. It has not been handled in the best way and there are many concerns. I believe the east-west interconnector can be built on time — by 2011 or 2012, or before that if they really want to do it. It is going underground. Any sensible person will accept this and there will probably be few objections. We have been discussing and planning this for ten years and the case for the interconnector was proven long ago. It is needed and it will happen on time. Some of the private companies are now claiming they could build their own interconnectors more quickly. It is a pity they did not get involved in the project earlier. I understand the project was put out to tender before now and nobody was interested until the Government decided to do it itself. It is interesting how things move along. It is to be hoped it will happen on time.

I fully support the east-west line as planned and the route it is taking even though it goes through my county. We need it and it is sensible to put it underground. I must accept this as it is the way it is — we will have concerns going along but it is to be hoped we will be able to iron them out.

EirGrid's job of managing the distribution network is an interesting but tough job. I have been in the control centre and seen what they do there. It is a place where an awful lot can happen at the touch of a button. IT is used, as well as competent staff, to control everything. I did not realise they could literally tap into every windmill farm and turn it off or on when they want to. It is an interesting place and I urge all Deputies to avail of the opportunity to see how it works so that they may understand its importance. Many of the speeches last week and this week on this issue dealt with energy supply, security and cost. It is a major issue and we need to understand it.

Apart from the fact that I represent County Meath, where the proposed route is, I am also interested in this project from the point of view of small businesses. Those who are running small businesses have made it clear to us that energy costs are a big issue and they want it tackled. There have been some positive moves over the past couple of years to help reduce some of the costs, but there is a long way to go to make things easier for business and ease the pressure. I am not advocating that we spend five times or ten times the money putting in different infrastructure than was suggested; that is not the argument. We should simply spend the money wisely and ensure we get the best value.

One of the reasons for building interconnectors, which is one of the main tasks of EirGrid, is that it will give us an opportunity to sell our energy as well as take it in. At the moment we are a net importer and we will be for a while, but it is to be hoped that at some point we will be able to sell the energy we produce and make money. My colleagues have spoken about the possibility of Ireland being a green energy supplier, and that would be great. It would be nice to be known for that. We are known to be a green country, with the shamrock and so on. We should set this as a target and go after it.

The most important short-term issue is security of energy supply. People have been saying over the past few years that we will run out of energy. At Christmas 2006 it was predicted there would be blackouts. This has not happened and I do not believe it will. My reading of the figures is that we are all right for the next couple of years. We need to get ourselves ready for what will happen down the line but it is not as urgent as people are making out. Our electricity will not go next Easter or next Christmas. We are all right from that point of view. However, one never knows. I understand that part of EirGrid's job is to consider, along with the Department, the area of energy production. At the moment we are centred on gas but we are moving towards wind and other energy resources. We will also lose out on some energy resources, such as turf, with the current cutbacks in turf cutting. We must consider other supplies.

Many Oireachtas committees have been travelling to different countries over the past number of years to look at supply methods and different ways of doing business. My committee, the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Enterprise, Trade and Employment, went to Gussing, Austria, at the suggestion of Deputy Mary White. It is an interesting place. The Minister is probably well aware of the projects being carried out in Gussing, but when I spoke to other people they did not know about it. We should consider places such as this. Gussing, a population centre of less than 5,000 which was one of the poorest areas of Austria in the early 1990s, has turned itself around to become one of the most self-sustaining and profitable areas in the country. This was mostly done by investment in energy production, although it also tapped into many grants from Europe. We visited plants that extract energy from biomass and biogas plants that make gas from grass, corn and so on. They call the plant a "cow" because it eats the same things as a cow and produces gas. This gas is then used to produce electricity. The area also has district heating, which is not something we have in Ireland but which I have seen in other countries. It works quite well. I accept it would probably not be cost-effective to install it in existing developments, but in the future, for developments of 200 or 300 houses, we should consider a system of district or central heating. I have asked EirGrid directly to consider this and I ask the Minister of State to ensure that the Department considers it also.

In Gussing, much effort is put into using local resources to obtain energy which can be sold to the national grid to offset the cost of its own power use. More than 50 businesses have chosen to locate there over the past seven or eight years, purely because of the low cost of energy. That is something we must learn from. Sometimes in Ireland we have too much of a tendency to think big. We plan huge power plants that will produce half the country's supply. However, we also need to consider the smaller versions. We already have wind farms, which is a step in the right direction, but even with them we are thinking big. It is only recently we have been hearing talk of smaller one-off windmills attached to people's homes. We must consider the possibility of villages and towns having their own plans for the provision of heat and energy in their area using the materials around them. In Monaghan or Navan, for example, where furniture is made, we could use wood left over from furniture building. There are certain things we can do if we put our minds to it. We need to consider energy production in smaller areas in conjunction with county councils, enterprise boards, and people involved in rural areas, such as partnership groups.

Obtaining permission to sell the resulting power is a complicated process and there is no guarantee. We should consider giving guarantees to community-centred, not-for-profit or county council groups wishing to provide their own energy supply that they will have an opportunity to supply the grid. They should not be treated in the same way as a private consortium. Common sense must be encouraged, and we must encourage a supply of energy at cost price, rather than at a profit. Many big companies are involved in providing infrastructure in Ireland, be it roads, electricity or something else, and they are there to make profits. We do encourage enterprise but we should also encourage not-for-profit enterprises. This is working well in the area of child care and community projects and we should consider it for other areas. People are under immense pressure when it comes to the cost of living, and the cost of running a business is also increasing. Anything we can do to use new ideas to save costs should be tried. We must learn from other countries.

We have a terrible habit in Ireland of conducting endless pilot schemes and studies. I do not know whether this is done just to delay spending money. Every now and then we should just do something. If we get it wrong it does not matter — we can do something else. We are obsessed in every area of Government with studies and comparisons. I want to see more politicians and Ministers making decisions and doing things. My colleague, the Minister, Deputy Noel Dempsey, is often criticised for going headlong after something and not thinking it through, but at least he is trying to reform things. Other Ministers are the same; Deputy Ryan is another Minister who will try to reform things. Politicians need to have guts. It is not all about setting up State agencies or bodies or other groups to take away decision-making. Decisions can be made by Government; that is where the quickest decisions can be made. I encourage this, especially in the area of energy delivery, production and cost. Let us make some quick decisions and try to get there as we go along. We must set targets that are interesting and challenging rather than establishing the bare EU minimum. Let us go after high targets in this area.

This Bill streamlines the delivery of energy through EirGrid. It will be working on these projects for a couple of years but in the future I hope it will be more proactive. I wish to mention interconnectors as the Minister himself brought it up. However, I will first mention smart meters. The energy regulator spoke to our committee recently and explained to us that it would take four or five years to roll out smart meters and that the cost would be high. Four or five years is probably not a bad target when we consider that a year ago we thought we would never see this. However, I ask the Minister of State to ask the Minister to consider giving priority to those who want to produce electricity in their own areas. They have to be given the chance to obtain smart meters and other incentives more quickly than anybody else because they are making an effort. The smart meters will be rolled out in yet another pilot scheme. I do not know why. We do not need pilot schemes. We know it is the right thing to do. The Minister brought the idea further when he took over the office. We should not bother with pilot schemes but start rolling out the project as quickly as we can. We should ensure that those who want to make their own energy are given priority.

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