Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)

For the second time in more than a week I have heard the position of John Redmond misrepresented. It is important to put on the record that but for the leadership and courage shown by him and others at the time and since, I fear to think what type of Europe we would have today. It is regrettable that we find ourselves speaking about neutrality which is an issue that is completely irrelevant to the Lisbon treaty. Due to the structure and rules of the House it appears as if we will get caught up in this issue and miss out on dealing with some other very important aspects of the Bill.

I do not wish to be discourteous to Deputy Ó Snodaigh but if "Reeling In The Years" is looking for a film clip in 20 or 30 years' time I hope it will not take that extract because we will not know whether it was 1908 or 2008, because certainly I have heard much of what he said previously. I made the point earlier today, with respect to our neutrality, for those who are campaigning against the Lisbon treaty and many of those who have campaigned against the various treaties during the past 20 or 30 years that I cannot see how we can lose our neutrality on each occasion. I would love to say to Deputy Ó Snodaigh that his fears are well-founded because we have taken that step, that we are going to take our place among the nations of the earth and made a contribution and be inside the common foreign and security policy and help to frame it. I used an analogy that I use at public meetings. If one is living in a housing estate and one's neighbour is experiencing difficulty after being bullied or attacked, surely one would go to their assistance. I see being involved in the common foreign and security policy as no greater or no less than that — helping one's neighbour, helping to protect one's values and those of one's neighbour. That is what it is about.

The Minister of State rightly outlined the various measures in the Constitution, the Seville declaration and the treaty itself on numerous occasions, dealing with the issue of neutrality. It does not impinge upon it in one aspect.

Our position in Fine Gael is quite clear, notwithstanding that we are fully supportive of the treaty. In Irish society those who are most critical of, perhaps, American foreign policy or Chinese foreign policy are quite happy to allow the flawed system in the United Nations in regard to the permanent members dictating how we should make our sovereign decisions. I find that contradictory. On the one hand we talk about our sovereignty and yet some people agree to allow countries, with whose foreign policy they totally disagree, have a veto on what we should decide to do as a foreign nation. I hope in time, if the issue of neutrality and the UN resolution is properly explained to the Irish people, they will move away from the comfort blanket of the UN and be quite happy to stand on their own two feet and make their own sovereign decision.

It is important to realise the EU battle group concept grew out of a request from the United Nations, following from the failure of the United Nations in the former Yugoslavia. Not having a proper mandate, not being capable of interoperability and not having the proper equipment allowed thousands of people to be slaughtered in an act of genocide. That is why the European Union evolved into a situation where it now provides battle groups based on a request from the UN, following the Brahimi report which recommends subcontracting out peace missions, peacekeeping and peace enforcement to regional organisations be they the African Union or the EU. It is wonderful that we can make a contribution on the national stage in Chad, to assist in dealing with refugees who are coming across the border from the Sudan. Many Irish people there have been calling for a number of years for intervention in that area. It is great that our troops can go there and have the necessary equipment to carry out its mandate in a proper manner. We have to move somewhat more in Europe because we did have a difficulty in getting the necessary logistical equipment in support of the operation to be carried out in an effective manner.

In regard to the actual increased spend on militarisation — the earlier amendments were ruled out of order — it is important to point out that the concept of the European Defence Agency is opposite. It proposes a decrease in expenditure in the EU——

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