Seymour Crawford (Cavan-Monaghan, Fine Gael)

I welcome the opportunity to speak on this Bill. I asked many times on the Order of Business that this Bill or the other legislation concerning EirGrid be brought before the House to give us an opportunity to speak on the overall situation and interconnection in particular. I hope the Minister will not mind me speaking on cross-Border grid structures, as Deputies Johnny Brady and Thomas Byrne have done. Such structures can be called an interconnector or part of an all-Ireland grid. I welcome the statements by both aforementioned Deputies because some of the comments that were being made at meetings earlier in the year certainly differed from them. I congratulate the north-east pressure group on the message it got across to people there. I refer to the press release from North East Pylon Pressure, regarding the position in Meath, Cavan and Monaghan, headed "EirGrid 'compensation' offers €1 billion to the cost of the pylon lines":

According to a report in a local newspaper this weekend, EirGrid has admitted to Meath GAA that it would be willing to pay financial compensation to home and landowners in counties Meath, Cavan and Monaghan whose properties would be devalued as a direct result of siting overhead power lines near them. Meath GAA Chairman, Cathal Seoighe, said EirGrid had indicated they were willing to set up a consultation and arbitration process to compensate home and land owners who could prove their properties had been devalued by pylons. Colin Andrew, a spokesman for the North East Pylon Pressure campaign (NEPP) said: "EirGrid have now conceded the dramatic effects pylons have in devaluing property. Our estimates confirm that — using averaged results from international studies, allowing for the housing density along the proposed route corridors, as well as average land prices — the overall cost of compensation will add between €800 and €1,000 million to the capital cost already admitted by EirGrid."

"On this basis", Colin Andrew said, "NEPP's proposal to underground the cables is now seen clearly to be a far cheaper option than overground pylons. Underground has the additional cost saving of cheaper maintenance and increased reliability and it helps the environment by reducing carbon dioxide emissions."

NEPP notes EirGrid's undertaking that they would not erect pylons on GAA land or within 250 metres of GAA property. We see that as an important admission by them of the health dangers posed. We now call on them to take one more step. They must undertake not to erect these massive pylons on any land in the North East.

NEPP calls on the Minister for Energy, Eamon Ryan, to see the absolute folly of attempting to go against the wishes of the three County Councils affected, the GAA, Toilte Ireland, Meath IAVI, ICA and the ICMSA, and over 45,000 people potentially affected by this proposal. The Minister must direct EirGrid to do the right thing — which now looks increasingly economically preferable — and underground the cables.

It is important to read this into the record because it is not a press release from a way-off group but from a group that has put much work into what they are talking about. I have met them, as have Deputies Brady and Byrne, at meetings where hundreds and sometimes thousands of people were present. Everything must be done to ensure the group's anxieties are taken into account. I welcome Deputy Conlon to the Chamber because she is in the middle of the situation and the cables will go through her home area. People in the area take this extremely seriously and are extremely anxious about it.

This is part of an all-Ireland grid, and is not just a connector. It will be used for wind farms to link in and power to be taken off. It is not like the interconnector from here to Wales. There is much anxiety and much work to be done by EirGrid and the Minister to address the situation and identify the best way forward. I have spoken of the need for links with Northern Ireland and across the Irish Sea.

Last year, a well-known manufacturing company, Wellman of Mullagh, which has plants in Holland and France wrote to us and provided a graph with a breakdown of cost factors showing the cost of electricity in Mullagh to be almost twice what it paid for a similar plant in France. Anyway we can minimise the cost of power to industry and farmers must be done, but in a way that is acceptable to everyone in the interests of health.

Deputy Brady referred to the visual issue and the problem with tourism. These must be taken into account as well. We must do that. I record the Minister's willingness to debate this issue. The Minister attended the committee, of which I am not a member but which I was allowed to attend, and listened to the concerns of members. As the Minister stated in a letter later, as a result of the debate a decision was taken to undertake an independent study.

I am worried about the independence of the study when the information is from people who worked with EirGrid before. It is difficult to see how they can be totally independent. It is equally difficult to see how to get an accurate assessment done within 40 days. I thank the Minister for taking this into account.

We are in a time where people do not take things for granted as they did many years ago. This is an era when people can contact others and get a group together quickly by text or other means. If there is a power line from Clare to Dublin that is causing a problem, people have access to all kinds of information. The folk in this pressure group are doing an incisive job on getting information.

I have a close friend who, along with his two brothers, built a house recently and will be directly affected by the line. They take this very seriously. They are business people and want to see matters moving on. They are not negative or raising this issue for the sake of being awkward. I have been involved in some groups that are there for the sake of being awkward but that is not the case with this group.

The Minister was present in the committee when colleagues showed the proposed layout for the future of the country. It is at least ten times the distance of lines proposed to be extended after this. If this is causing problems in our area, there is no doubt there will be problems in other areas. If this can be resolved in an amicable way, the potential is there for further layout of the proposed cables to bring this country forward economically and with proper power.

The withdrawal of the other EirGrid Bill puzzles me. It was promised but is being withdrawn. I worry about the handover of issues to other bodies. We have seen what happened with Eircom. While there are all types of competitors for one's telephone bill, the reality is that we depend on Eircom for the telephone lines, in the main, especially in rural Ireland. If one is trying to get broadband through Eircom in Martin Lodge or some other places in County Monaghan or County Cavan, one will find it extremely difficult. A friend of mine, Mr. Nugent, has some 25 people working for him and they need broadband. An Eircom representative arrived, did not know what was wanted and when told by one of the staff, said nothing could be done. We do not want a situation such as that with the ESB and we would need to ensure we retain control so that we can get electricity lines whenever and wherever we want them.

I want to address a couple of other issues in the time I have left. As a member of the British-Irish Interparliamentary Body, I am aware that one of the things being looked at by a sub-committee is the whole green energy situation. We have visited Scotland in this regard. Deputy Mansergh mentioned a short time ago what had happened on some of the islands in Scotland. We have seen how they have moved forward as far as green energy is concerned, and certainly we have a good deal to learn from them. They are dealing with wind offshore, biomass etc. On visiting their biomass plant one sees them using poultry litter. Not only are the farmers paid for the poultry litter, but they are also getting cheaper electricity. That puts our problems in context as far as competition is concerned. We certainly cannot compete with that.

Meat and bone meal has been utilised, also, in the UK to make electricity. Yet we have exported it to Germany, one of the cleanest countries in the world, effectively giving them raw material for virtually nothing. Our study has yet to be fully completed, but it will be encouraging the use of green energy as far as possible. There is a massive windfarm in my constituency outside Cootehill in County Cavan. It took years to get agreement on the interconnector there. The people who wanted to go ahead with the first windfarm there had to go to Scotland for years, while awaiting Government approval to get that done. If we are serious about moving the green energy forward and ensuring we have as much energy as possible here from the cheapest sources, then we must ensure the barriers are removed and that the people who want to are given the opportunity. I believe there are 36 wind farmers in one group there and 19 in another. There are also wind farms around Ballyconnell and some smaller units just outside Ballybay, near my home area. It might be something the Minister could look at, but I understand that some of the cabling for the latter windfarm is actually underground, for whatever reason. That might give him some idea of the cost factor and how, in a Monaghan situation, the costs underground compare with those over ground. I do not have the figures, on hand, but it is very important that the Minister does this.

Another issue that will be problematic and, indeed, has already caused serious problems in our Border area constituency, is how pig units deal with their waste. I would urge the Minister, along with the Minister for Agriculture, Fisheries and Food to re-examine that whole situation to determine how the energy generated may be utilised and how we can retain production there. I realise some of the smaller units that have been forced out of business in the last few years would not be in a position to deal with that situation, and obviously the slurry product cannot be transferred too far. However, it is a substance that should be used instead of bought-in fertiliser. If it cannot be used in that way, then it should be utilised for the production of electricity.

The Minister said, in his speech, that the purpose of the Bill was to provide EirGrid with the legislative underpinning to advance to the next stage of the east-west interconnector project. That is to go ahead in September 2011 and the targeted date for completion of works is the end of March 2012. This is very important, as I have said earlier and brings us to another subject, which the Minister has raised, namely, the whole issue of nuclear power. The last speaker, Deputy Mansergh, mentioned this as well. Nuclear power is something we all talk about and say we should not have, and all the rest of it. However, when we have to compete with others who have it, we must see how we can benefit from it, in the event. It is very much allied to how others produce food and get away with using hormones for the same markets as us, but we do not. I believe we can get around this issue without too many scruples by having proper interconnection with the UK and perhaps, further on, into Europe. Wellman is an example of the argument that we will continue to lose competitiveness, especially in manufacturing industry, if we do not and cannot produce the basics of power, water and all other energy inputs at a similar cost to our competitors. I welcome the prospect of the interconnector being put in place and urge the Minister to ensure everything is done to facilitate this. In doing that it will leave us not just open to competition but open to opportunity with wind, especially. Someone said earlier that there could be wind in one place but not another. However, if we are connected to a much larger Continent, we will be sure of guaranteed power, and we must be absolutely sure of that. Gas and other issues are finite problems. At the present time we are dependent on gas from the North Sea and Russia. Russia might fall out with some countries, with extreme consequences not just for Ireland, but Europe. In that context this interconnector is of extreme importance.

I wish the Minister well with this Bill and hope the matter can be sorted. Before I finish I urge the Minister to ensure that a proper study is done into underground and over-ground costs for the north east. I assure him I will work with him, as a public representative, to try to deal with the situation in a constructive proactive manner so that whatever the study shows will be positively dealt with.

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