Joe McHugh (Donegal North East, Fine Gael)

Yesterday I visited Termonfeckin in County Louth, joined by the esteemed Minister of State, Deputy Dick Roche, to attend a meeting of the Irish Countrywomen's Association, the ICA, as it is more familiarly known. It is good to see this debate is taking place. I commend all the organisations that are taking the initiative and encourage other organisations within the voluntary and community sector, and even State bodies, to show initiative and get the debate going. I welcome the fact there is a "No" camp because it certainly adds fire to the debate. If the debate really gets going, the facts will emerge. I also welcome last weekend's announcement by a high profile businessman of his "No" candidature.

The complexity of the document is and will continue to be an issue for many people. However, the issue is complex. We are talking about 500 million people, institutions, politics and 27 independent states trying to work in harmony towards greater gain on policy issues. At the same time, we are trying to hold onto our individuality and independence, which is enshrined in our Constitution. The biggest myth in this debate is that we would lose independence, which is a nonsensical argument. There is a view that we will not be able to have a referendum on another European treaty. That is nonsense because it is sacrosanct in the Constitution that we are independent on this issue.

I have come across many people who are indifferent towards politicians in the "Yes" camp who advocate all that Europe has done for us. It reminds me of the question in the film "The Life of Brian" when someone asked what did the Romans ever do for us and the reply came that they built the roads and bridges and provided sanitation. We could also ask what Brussels or Europe has ever done for us. There is a mindset that they did not do anything for us but the reality is that much has been achieved, yet the only aspect the public are tapping into, and I am being reflective of my own neck of the woods in the north western corner of Europe, is that there is a degree of imbalance in terms of European funding spend on infrastructural projects. One only has to travel to Dublin to see the European investment in the M50.

I realise it is a chicken and egg situation in that investment follows critical mass but the people living in the west argue that the only way to build critical mass is to invest money in the region. An issue the people in the west will acknowledge when they vote in June is whether we have got our fair share of the pie from Europe. The danger is that they will blame Europe, but Europe did not design our policy. This is national policy. It is an issue about which we should be upfront and the people in the "Yes" camp should acknowledge we have not distributed the fair share of infrastructural spend throughout the country.

On another element, we must acknowledge the positives in terms of the social inclusion measures including, going back to our joining of the EEC in 1973, the social economy project and in later years the empowerment of women projects, the active social inclusion measures for people with disabilities and people who are on the margins. We have to acknowledge that much of that came from European policy and it is something we should advocate. We should not be arguing in the past. We must make ground in the future because inequities and imbalances remain. We only have to consider the different wage scales. Women are still not on a par with men when it comes to top industrial wages and the top jobs. We must continue to explore those issues and by being part of Europe and buying into this Lisbon treaty we can achieve more in terms of creating more equality.

Regarding disabilities, we are still not complying with our own legislation in terms of inclusion in the labour market. At local authority and Government level and throughout our State mechanism we must put up our hands and acknowledge that we are not complying with the 4% requirement for people with disabilities in employment. That measure stemmed from Europe and it is an issue on which we should keep a sharp focus within the Lisbon treaty.

Regarding our international duties as a European Union, we have a role in that regard. It is unique that an Irishman, Pat Nash, is leading the peace troops to Chad. It is important that we get across the point that Irish people are not in the business of going to war for the sake of it. There are displaced people and people who are hungry who need help. They need the independent forces to give them some sort of assistance and there are no better people to do that than the Irish because of our history over 800 years, going back to colonisation, of achieving peace. We are in the business of being peacemakers. We are not in the business of going to war. The argument that we will not have a say in terms of an EU army is nonsense because it is enshrined in the Lisbon treaty that there must be unanimity and an opt-out clause.

I referred earlier to regional development. The element in the Lisbon treaty about subsidiarity stemmed from the Committee of the Regions and the Assembly of European Regions where regions have to get autonomy. We must bring power back to the regions. That is enshrined in the Lisbon treaty and something I welcome. It is something we must aspire towards. The Minister of State, Deputy Devins, will be aware that Sligo got a range of new carriages and rail services, which I very much welcome. It is great for the region but Derry city, for example, is the fourth largest city but there is no direct rail connectivity with Dublin and there are no plans to have direct connectivity for rail. Government on both sides of the Border agreed to an integrated transport strategy through the Good Friday Agreement. They bought into that but in the policies North and South there is no mechanism or policy to consider connectivity between Derry city and Dublin up to the north west region. We must examine that issue because by being part of a workmanlike European Union they will assist us to ensure that happens.

Regarding enlargement, there is a serious issue in terms of our peripherality. We are moving further away from the centre of Europe. With the eastern European bloc we are more on the periphery now than ever before from a geographical point of view. That is something that is settling into the psyche of the Irish electorate. They can feel that distancing and that we are further on the periphery, but that does not mean we should opt out. We may be further isolated but we will still have a pivotal role in terms of the United States and an enlarged European Union. We cannot take our eye off the ball in that regard. We must be careful in setting ourselves up in terms of competitive standards. There is a role for us to play in terms of a working collaboration between the United Kingdom and Ireland. From his experience in the British-Irish committee, the Minister of State is aware that goodwill exists. Deputy Brady is a member of the British-Irish committee now and we are looking for a mechanism for that British-Irish committee to evolve. We should examine that collectively because in being part of that grouping we will be a more formidable force in terms of increased competition.

The EU is too bureaucratic. There are too many layers of bureaucracy and the Lisbon treaty will try to peel back those layers. I welcome that and the fact that a citizens' charter will give more democracy to the people. There is provision for a direct petition for 1 million signatures. I am aware those in the "No" camp are disregarding that but it means something. It is direct access to Europe on particular issues.

It is important we do not take our eye off the ball on this issue. I do not know about Members on the other side of the House but I meet many people from Donegal who say they will vote "No". They are not yet convinced and will vote "No" at this stage. They will keep an open mind but we must keep the campaign going in terms of information and clarity on this issue.

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