Billy Timmins (Wicklow, Fine Gael)

I thank the Leas-Cheann Comhairle.

The definition of trade in cluster munitions is deliberately wide in order to encompass all forms of activity that may be associated with the use, design, possession, procurement, transit or trade in cluster munitions. The definition states: "trade in cluster munitions means development, design, production, purchase, sale, supply, procurement, import, export, transit, use storage or possession of cluster munitions".

Section 3 is the key operative section of the Bill and sets out the prohibition on trade in cluster munitions by any person or body corporate. It also prohibits persons investing in or financing companies involved in the trade of cluster munitions. In order to provide transparency as to which companies trade in cluster munitions, a register of prohibited investment in cluster munitions will be established by section 8 of the Bill, which I will discuss in more detail shortly. However, for the purpose of section 3, it will be an offence for a person or body corporate to invest in a person, including a body corporate, that is placed on the register.

This will have clear implications for banks and fund managers in Ireland. It now will be the case that such companies must make inquiries as to whether their investment is being used to finance a company involved in trade in cluster munitions. It is important to stress that the obligation created is a positive one. Persons making such investment must take active steps to ensure they are not investing in companies involved in the trade of cluster munitions and neglecting to so do will not be a defence. This is contained in section 4 of the Bill. However, it will be a defence to show that reasonable inspection could not have established that the investment was in trade of cluster munitions or a person or company involved in same.

Section 5 of the Bill provides the penalties for commission of this offence. The penalty on summary conviction will be €3,000 or imprisonment for a term not exceeding 12 months, or both. The penalty for conviction on indictment will be a fine of €1 million or imprisonment for a term not exceeding five years, or both. As usual, it will be for the Director of Public Prosecutions to determine from the nature of the case which form of prosecution is appropriate on a case by case basis. It is clear from these penalties that Fine Gael's goal is to achieve compliance with the legislative provisions, rather than being obliged to take the punitive route straight away.

No one benefits from the investment in trade in cluster munitions actually occurring, with the resulting fine imposed to be merely a tax on the investment. For this reason Fine Gael has suggested the fine should be comparatively low in the first instance at summary prosecution but that it should be increased dramatically for conviction on indictment to €1 million. While Fine Gael believes that encouraging compliance is the preferred option, the indictment penalty should be sufficiently large to put off even the most profitable of pensions funds.

Section 6 of the Bill provides that any cluster munitions found will be confiscated by the State and destroyed, at the expense of the owner of the cluster munitions. It also provides that the Minister will have the discretion to confiscate any means of transport used to transport cluster munitions.

Section 7 provides the framework for achieving compliance with the provisions of the Bill through forced disclosure that no investment in cluster munitions has occurred.

This Bill is the first of its kind to go further than the international consensus by targeting cluster munitions at their source, namely, funding. I believe that providing for the utmost transparency in investment and financing will itself operate as a mechanism of regulation. I believe the Irish people do not wish to see their money being used to develop and produce cluster munitions and that through their capacity as consumers they have enormous power to dictate the corporate social responsibility agenda of large corporate bodies. While the framework provided should stem the need for prosecutions, Fine Gael strongly advocates that where it does not, heavy financial penalties should be imposed by the courts.

It is not the goal of Fine Gael to go after big business, stem the profitability of pension funds, put company directors in jail or impose massive fines that would dent the competitiveness of Irish funds. Our goal is to remove cluster munitions from the vernacular of international affairs. It is to remove these horrifically destructive weapons from use and to prevent them from injuring innocent civilians many years after the original conflict. As Ireland neither produces nor stores them, how can Members act to ensure that Ireland plays no role in their development and use? It has a small but powerful economy and through the provision of a regulatory framework, backed up by serious punitive measures to prohibit investment in cluster munitions, it can make its mark in the fight against the use of these cruel weapons of war.

One regularly hears the Government claiming the Opposition fails to come up with proposals. This proposal in no way conflicts with Government policy and I am sure it reflects the will of the people. While I do not believe there are difficulties associated with the Bill, any such difficulties may be addressed on Committee Stage.

The Bill does not include efforts to deal with human damage, which I believe should be addressed through humanitarian aid. In addition, the Bill does not rule out Ireland operating with countries that still use such munitions, as this would have too great an impact on Ireland's peacekeeping duties. However, Ireland would never operate in the system in an offensive manner when such weapons would be used. The Minister should reflect before moving his amendment.

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