Thomas Byrne (Meath East, Fianna Fail)

Tá áthas orm labhairt ar an mBille um Thacaíocht do Mhic Léinn 2008. Is fíor a rá go bhfuil a lán dul chun cinn déanta ag an Rialtas i rith na mblianta chun cabhair agus deontais a thabhairt do mic léinn triú leibhéal. Chuir an Rialtas €243 milliúin ar fáil tríd na ceithre scéim éagsúla i 2007. Bhain 56,000 mic léinn triú leibhéal — agus ceathrú leibhéal ó am go ham — sochar as na deontais sin. Tá na teorainneacha cáilithe ardaithe faoi 3.5% sa bhliain acadúil 2007-08 agus tá an deontas imithe in airde freisin. Is méadú suntasach é sin.

I welcome the Bill. As a Deputy and in my previous role, I have received many queries on student support issues. Based on my experience, it is clear the process of applying for grants and appealing decisions made by county councils and VECs is characterised by considerable confusion. A dearth of information is available to students, particularly mature students and those returning from abroad. The problem is primarily one of a lack of information rather than a shortage of money.

Deputy Costello raised a number of the points I intended to make. The vocational educational committees are eminently capable of performing the function of providing student support. My local VEC in County Meath will prove itself a model in delivering the services required of it under the Bill and I am sure its members look forward to performing this function.

I ask the Minister to explain the purpose of having a separate appeals officer in the VECs. While there may be good reason for establishing this statutory post, it appears slightly odd that decisions by the awarding bodies should be appealed to a member of their staff, particularly as the chief executive may make the decision in the first instance. This provision appears to create duplication of work.

Deputy Costello referred to the role of students in the appeals mechanism. Perhaps it is not necessary to have such an intermediate appeals process. Having appealed a number of decisions on student grant awards on behalf of constituents, the problem I encountered was finding information on how to pursue an appeal.

On the option to extend the 30-day period for appeals, perhaps the Minister is aware of cases where such an extension was justified. Deputy Costello made a fair point regarding the difficulty it creates for students. However, it also creates difficulties for the VECs, which may come under intense pressure, including from elected representatives, to extend deadlines when it may not be necessary to do so. The old adage of "give an inch, take a mile" may be relevant in such cases. I am not criticising the Bill but making some observations on it. It is good legislation that finally places the student support process on a statutory footing.

It is important to establish an independent appeals body. In the cases I have dealt with, the decision of the VEC would be notified to the applicant by the chief executive. If the decision was appealed, the appellant would invariably receive a further letter from the chief executive notifying him or her that the original decision stood. The current procedure is not fair if the same person effectively decides on the application and any appeals arising therefrom. The Bill changes this but is the intermediate appeal necessary? The appeals process should be streamlined more and I question its necessity. How likely is it that a staff member of a VEC such as County Meath VEC, which is a small but effective institution, will make changes or perform a worthwhile function?

As I mention County Meath VEC, the Minister is aware of a number of significant projects in which it is engaged at present, particularly with regard to Coláiste na hInse in my area, which is going through the planning process and which will open in September. It has almost 100 pupils for first year and a professional job is being done of opening the school. This is evident in the community and it gives me great confidence that County Meath VEC will be willing to take on these extra responsibilities which will be bestowed by the Oireachtas. I know the Minister does not intend to launch a pilot programme to implement the changes included in this Bill but if she did I would recommend County Meath VEC.

With regard to previous difficulties, in Trinity College a notice board showed the local authorities and VECs, such as Drogheda VEC, County Louth VEC, County Meath VEC, City of Dublin VEC and County Dublin VEC, from which grants had arrived. It was alleged the grants became available when the Government supplied the money and perhaps this was the case. It proved difficult for many people who depended on the money to pay deposits for rental accommodation and to get started in college. Students should be encouraged to work as much as they can during the summer holidays and contribute to their education. They should not be entirely dependent on the State. The State has only a certain role to play. As a student, I worked during college and this is no harm so long as it does not interfere with studies.

From reading the Bill, I understand the awarding authorities, namely the VECs, will have the power to create application forms. Should the Minister do this through regulation or append it to the legislation? Will it lead to a divergence of practice? Should the design of the form and deciding the information requested be a central function? I am not sure what discretion is required and it seems discretion is being offered.

When we think about third level grants we think of the main universities and institutes of technology with which we deal all the time. A wide range of third level education is available in the State. Under section 8, the Minister is allowed define approved institutions whose students can benefit from grant assistance. A number of them are automatically deemed to be approved institutions, such as publicly funded institutions. Private institutions also exist and section 8 also sets out the criteria to which the Minister must have regard when deciding what is an approved institution.

Is the Minister minded to add in a section as to the institutions' commitment to the Irish language? I know not all institutions teach Irish but perhaps the Minister could take it into account. It might encourage newer institutions to take a more active role in promoting the Irish language, particularly in business courses.

The Bill includes the definition of an approved course. The Minister can approve a course under the Bill, which contains a long list of criteria to which the Minister must have regard. Some might argue the Oireachtas should decide on what is an approved course and not give the discretion to the Government. In this case it is necessary because courses change and new courses are brought into being. The Minister knows what to do and the Oireachtas has given her guidance on it.

Under section 10, the awarding authorities are obliged to assess and review the resources required by them for the purpose of performing their functions. An increase of resources will be required. The Minister should select a couple of extremely good VECs and ask them to come up with systems that would work. Very good people work in the VEC sector throughout the country. I will not name names but the Minister knows who they are. I would love if they were heavily involved in this because they would take it on with gusto. What do they need to run this system? They are already doing it to an extent and will be only too delighted to expand their role. The county councils will be fairly happy not to be involved.

Should we publish the list of recipients of grants? I do not see it provided for in the Bill. It would certainly discourage fraud and those who on paper are entitled to grants but in reality may not be. Examples of this exist throughout society. The focus today is on pharmacists. The money doctors get under the GMS scheme, the money solicitors and barristers get under the legal aid scheme and TDs' salaries are published. It does not tell the full story but it is published. It is public money and the public is entitled to know. Perhaps publishing the information on grants is a good idea but requires further thought.

Under section 11, the Minister can transfer the functions of an awarding authority to another body when he or she thinks the body is not doing the job it is supposed to do. Section 11(1)(a) is particularly relevant as it allows for the transfer from one VEC to another. Perhaps a number of VECs will come together and ask the Minister to transfer functions from one or two to three or one to two. It may not always be the case that the Minister is not happy. Perhaps the VECs may feel they could do the work better jointly, particularly the smaller VECs.

Provision is made for nationality and residence requirements and I know this is major issue for the Department of Finance. Is the habitual residence clause in social welfare law relevant? Where an Irish child of parents who were required to work abroad wants to study in Ireland one might suggest he or she wants to avail of our low fees or free fees as compared to his or her home country. However, perhaps they want to settle in Ireland which is where they really belong. I have been in correspondence with the Minister on a number of cases of students living abroad who want to study in Ireland with regard to fees in particular but also to grants. Rather than looking back with regard to residence can we look forward as we do in social welfare, although the residency requirement clause causes controversy. Will the Minister examine this because people do lose out?

Section 14 allows the Minister, with the consent of the Minister for Finance, to make regulations for such matters of procedure and administration as appear to the Minister to be necessary or expedient in respect of applications by students for grants. Will this allow the Minister to specify a form? Section 15 states an applicant shall apply to an awarding authority for a grant. An applicant cannot apply to receive more than one grant at one time. Perhaps this is self-evident. However, in other areas of society, particularly with regard to council housing, people are on lists with various local authorities. Section 15(3) states "An applicant shall furnish to the awarding authority the information specified in subsection (4) and such other information as the authority may request". While I accept an element of discretion is required for people to prove their income to qualify for a maintenance grant, this gives too much to the awarding authority. It could be seeking documents that local authorities never sought. Clear guidelines should be given as to what information should be required.

Section 16 deals with change of circumstances and gives tremendous power to the awarding authority in the case where a student's circumstances change for the better and a grant may not be required. What about when circumstances change for the worse? There are many examples such as mature students or a student's parents no longer supporting them after a row. I have encountered many such cases but there seems to be inflexibility in the system.

There should be a provision to allow a student apply for a grant during the academic year if his or her circumstances change. Students attending advanced courses from the Law Society of Ireland in April this year will be assessed on income in 2006. Fees for these courses are relatively high and many students attending them from the country must live in Dublin temporarily. They will, however, be assessed for a period when they could have been working as apprentices and will not qualify for the grant. My local authority treats a person starting a course in April as starting in September of the previous year and makes no allowance. This inflexibility should be addressed.

I welcome the provision for a proper appeals system on a statutory basis. It may be necessary to introduce time limits to give clarity to the process. The appeal rules in the current system were often difficult to understand and deal with.

Deputy Costello referred to section 25 which deals with access plans and equality programmes. While it exempts established universities and institutes of technology to avoid replicating existing laws, it provides for access to private approved institutions by economically or socially disadvantaged people, by people who have a disability and by people from sections of society significantly underrepresented in the student body. These institutions will have to report regularly on their access programmes and prove they are implementing the policies. This is a welcome provision for the smaller and new colleges, highlighting they are not just businesses.

I thank the Minister for introducing this welcome legislation. While students always give out — I did so myself when in college — it has been welcomed by the Union of Students in Ireland. The sooner it is enacted the better. If there is an opportunity to operate the Bill's provisions in pilot programmes this year, will the Minister consider County Meath VEC?

See this speech in context