Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)

On Deputy Kenny's last question, I stated last week in a reply to Deputy Gilmore that the Smithwick tribunal will go to the High Court and the State will not resist that. That is the process which must be undergone. The papers from 1989 will be made available but the tribunal must go to the High Court to obtain them.

The meeting of the North-South Ministerial Council was successful. We did not discuss collusion because of the North-South nature of proceedings. However, I spoke to Paul Murphy who, on behalf of the Prime Minister, now has special responsibility for the east-west relationship. Mr. Murphy has been involved since the beginning of the negotiations on the Good Friday Agreement. He co-chaired proceedings when Senator George Mitchell was involved. Mr. Murphy is a key player and is very familiar with matters. We have raised these issues and he is well aware of our stance in respect of them.

As I see it, several Ministers and Secretaries of State served under former Prime Minister Blair and some of them were more helpful than others. Papers and documents that were readily available were provided by the NIO and the British Government. I do not have any information which indicates that these have not been furnished. A large number of papers were given, on the basis of strict confidentiality, to the MacEntee inquiry.

The Deputy requested my view on this matter. Most of the departmental records, as we know them, and other records have been given. What have not been, and are unlikely to be, given are the files — if any — in the possession of MI5 and MI6, which have a strange system, to say the least. I have dealt with many Ministers and Secretaries of State regarding how that system operates but I came across a number of Chinese walls. I do not believe we will obtain a great deal from these sources.

There were agreements in respect of some cases. Rather than chasing all of these, we have concentrated our efforts on pursuing the Finucane case. What has happened in recent years in this case is that the British do not like to deal with any of our officials in respect of it because we keep pursuing the same issues. The position is that they are totally reluctant and politely unhelpful as regards making available the papers relating to collusion in the Finucane case. I might be wrong but I believe a considerable amount of information relating to the case is available. This is why we should continue to pursue it. In any event it was part of a process agreed at Weston Park, which went to the Cory report. Judge Cory could not have been a more independent person. He was an eminently senior member of the Canadian judiciary, recognised throughout the world, and he did a great deal of work in respect of this matter. Even while members of his family were ill, he continued with his work.

Judge Cory made his report and it was internationally accepted and recognised by various judicial and legal interests. Campaigns were launched and advertisements were placed in newspapers in the United States. This matter was examined in Brussels and is being considered here. A motion was put before the House and one was also put to the joint Houses of Congress in the United States. However, the British will still not act.

I have informed the British on many occasions that I do not believe anyone would be shocked by what might emerge from a report on the murder of Pat Finucane. No one would be shocked because we all know what happened. The stories of those to whom I have spoken about the matter are consistent. As Deputy Kenny stated, it would do a great deal of good if such a report could be forthcoming. I have shown my good faith and proceeded with the Smithwick inquiry into the terrible murders of Buchanan and Breen. We will follow it through and it may have some knock-on effects into our system. We are aware of that but we will follow those investigations truthfully but we are not getting the same response. My tactic is to confine our efforts on this issue to the Finucane case rather than trying to follow several cases, which I do not believe we will get.

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