Dara Calleary (Mayo, Fianna Fail)

I endorse the comments of the Minister of State, Deputy McGuinness. In the debate on competition law nobody envisaged that the law would be applied in this manner. That is why it is so important to review the Competition Act. To this end the Select Committee on Enterprise, Trade and Employment has adopted that goal as probably the major element of its work programme for 2008, given the detailed work that will have to be considered. When something like this occurs that has not been envisaged, it shows the complexity of legislative matters. Competition law generally is changing so much because we must manage the interests of competition, while protecting consumer rights. I look forward to considering these matters in the context of the forthcoming review.

I join previous speakers in commenting on the Pharmacies Act. I remember the morning when Professor Drumm appeared with 20 HSE advisers. He had a very cool and calm persona the whole way through, in spite of everything that was thrown at him. He remained confident but when Deputy Higgins and I inquired about the IPU, that cool and calm persona disappeared. The flashes of anger apparent that day were extraordinary in the light of other issues ongoing at the time concerning cancer services. The attitude of the HSE has been incredibly frustrating, particularly with regard to its management of the IPU-pharmacy issue. It has consistently provided us with misleading information on the make-up of the GMS scheme and the impact of changes to it, particularly with regard to community and rural pharmacists. We were led to believe the GMS scheme would account for 40% of the average pharmacy's turnover when, in fact, for many in rural and disadvantaged areas, it accounts for a minimum of 80% to 85%.

As regards this specific issue, we were advised by the HSE that the illegal issue had arisen in the context of a legal opinion sought by one of the wholesalers. Some five weeks ago I asked the HSE's parliamentary affairs division what companies had sought that information and what wholesalers had provided it, but I have yet to receive a response. Even the HSE's update that Members received last week was incendiary in terms of its tone and content. It was not the kind of letter someone who was serious about negotiation would have publicly distributed. I very much regret that it was done.

I understand there are proposals, according to which the HSE intends to remove wholesalers from the chain and encourage pharmacists to deal directly with manufacturers. That is a bizarre system because in most retail systems a wholesaler is involved. Unless we are going to adopt a Dell or Ryanair approach to medicine, that is not the way to go. Wholesalers are providing an excellent service which is particularly suited to community and rural pharmacies. To remove them from the equation would reduce the level of service available to pharmacies and patients.

I endorse the remarks made by the Minister of State. It is ironic that competition law has been mentioned in the discussion on pharmacies, but it is good that we have finally been able to raise the issue in the Chamber. It has been well debated at the Joint Committee on Health and Children, at our own parliamentary party meetings and within other political parties.

The Shipsey process should be allowed to grow. I ask the Minister of State to encourage the HSE to give that process time to grow. The IPU is willing to engage with it. Earlier the HSE lawyers agreed a programme under the Shipsey process but when they went back, HSE management completely disowned the agreement reached by its own lawyers. That does not instil much confidence in the HSE's approach. I call on the HSE to approach the negotiations with a new willingness to try to reach a deal. Everybody agrees that we need to review and reform the pharmacy, GMS and drug payments schemes. Pharmacists, the HSE and Members of the House agreed that was so but the manner in which it is being done is akin to taking a sledgehammer to a nut. We cannot allow that to happen, given that pharmacists form such an important part of the health service. I hope that in the coming days before Christmas the HSE will respond to the latest initiative from the IPU in the spirit intended — it was communicated to us yesterday — otherwise the issue will be back before the House with more amendments and debates, while patients suffer.

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