Bertie Ahern (Dublin Central, Fianna Fail)

I had meetings earlier this year with a group that operates as a single representative body for the Islamic faith in Ireland. As Deputy Kenny knows, there are different segments and associations within that faith in this country. They operate in a single group for this purpose. I had those meetings earlier this year. I also had meetings with representatives of the Catholic church as part of that round of meetings.

I recall the meetings. The Garda Commissioner is responsible for the turban issue as it is an operational matter for the force. We had an extensive debate about Islam and the education system in Ireland. We spoke about the requirements of the schools in Clonskeagh. We discussed the practices of people of that faith who are being educated in other educational establishments. A number of educational issues raised by the group in question are being followed up within the Department of Education and Science. We had a number of discussions about the need for the Islamic community to integrate into Irish society as fully as possible. As Deputy Kenny knows, I have always had a practice of engaging with them and going to their Clonskeagh mosque on important occasions. I have done that for a number of years.

They are following those issues with the various Departments. Both they and I are very anxious to ensure that mistakes — or at least perceived mistakes — which were made in other jurisdictions are avoided and that they integrate into social life and organisations. The Constitution entitles them and any other faith group to their own practices but wherever possible there should be integration and dialogue. Their leadership is very anxious that this be the case.

They have a number of issues which are being dealt with by other Departments. As we have already stated, where possible, the different new communities in the country should be represented within the Garda Síochána, such as the Chinese and other nationalities as well as other groups such as the Islamic groups.

In the case of the Catholic church, there is ongoing dialogue between church representatives and officials of the Department of Education and Science regarding the school patron system. A number of pilot systems are currently being operated. I suggest the Deputy put down a question to the Minister for Education and Science as I have not been dealing with those issues. It is quite clear the churches will not be able to sustain and manage schools in the way they have done traditionally and there is a move towards a system of lay boards of management. Even so, there will be quite a number of changes within the structures over the next number of years and this is an ongoing major issue which is being dealt with by the Department of Education and Science.

It is estimated that next year, 58 new schools will be required in the greater Dublin area and that a total of 18,000 more children will commence primary level than will leave it. This means there will be a need for 18,000 new places. The challenge for the country, for Departments and for the collective churches is enormous. Those discussions with the Departments are ongoing and will continue for quite some time.

See this speech in context